Iraq [was Re: [CLUE-Talk] Slashdot Gun Control]

[Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier]

On Tue, 17 Dec 2002, Randy Arabie wrote:

*snip*

> What threat?  Granted, none of them will send an army over and storm the
> US beaches, but...
>
> Iran has been linked to the bombing of the US Embassy in Beirut, the bombing
> of the marine barracks in Beirut, the bombing of the US Embassy's (or
> Embassies?) in Africa, and the bombing of the Khobar barracks in Saudi Arabia.
> And the terrorists responsible for the bombing of PanAm flight 101 also had
> ties to Iran.

The Iranian government or factions within Iran? I don't doubt that there
are numerous Iranian ties to terrorism... but the question here would be
whether going to war with a country like Iran would really solve that
problem...

> North Korea isn't as clear a threat.  I'm not aware of any evidence
> linking them to terrorists.  But they do have WMD programs and missles
> with regional range, not yet ICBM's, but they are working on that.

They've admitted trying to nuclear weapons... but the question is
whether they're a real threat to us. I strongly doubt it, at least at
this time.

> Those are not mutually exclusive.  Iraq can be (is) a serious present-day
> threat despite the dismal condition of it's conventional military
> forces.

They could be, hypothetically, but I doubt it.

> The ability to package enough nerve gas to kill thousands into a container, ship
> it over to NY City, and release it in a crowded subway is a serious present-day
> threat.
>
> The ability to send smallpox infected "martyrs" on an all expense paid
> vacation at Disney World is a serious present-day threat.

By this rationale we should go to war with damn near every country in
the Middle East, starting with Saudi Arabia. So, again, why Iraq in
particular? I still say there's no good reason for it unless we're going
to start a practice of going after every country that might, maybe,
possibly harbor a terrorist threat to the U.S.

> Really?  That's exactly what we did during the Gulf War.  In fact, we
> did much more than provoke him.  We attacked him and destroyed most of his
> conventional military forces _AND_ all the stockpiles of WMD we could
> find.

You mean the stockpiles of chemical weapons that we helped supply in the
first place?

> Yes, we have seen a serious erosion of our liberties.  And I despise
> that.  I disagree with the detention without due process, the secret
> military tribunals, and the relaxation of wiretap laws.

I think "disagree" is a bit mild. Any administration that would go to
these lengths to curtail civil liberties is not one that can be trusted.
The Department of Homeland Security scares me much more than Iraq does.

> However, I still believe that the adminstration will reveal the evidence
> that proves Saddam is in violation of the UN Resolutions. I believe the
> domestic and international outcry would be too great if they didn't, and
> I believe the administration knows that.

You have a lot of blind faith in an administration that hasn't earned
it.

> Ok.  I see.  If the Bush Administration acts unilaterally you won't be
> happy.  And if they seek approval from the only international governing
> world body you won't be happy either.

My point is, they didn't actually "seek approval." They declared a
unilateral course of action, then finally sought congressional approval
after making clear that they felt that they didn't need it anyway.

Then they went through the show of going to the UN after making very
clear that we were going to do whatever we pleased anyway. There was
never a thought of allowing the UN to say "no" -- if the UN hadn't
passed our resolutions, the administration would have simply pursued the
same course of action -- they made that quite clear.

> I'm really not sure what you would have them do.

How about focusing on some REAL problems in this country, rather than
trying to distract people with the "war on terror" and restoring some of
the civil liberties they've worked so hard to take away? That's a start.

How about dealing with some real threats to our security and way of
life, like the massive outsourcing of tech jobs to India and other
countries? Real foreign threats like Saudi Arabia?

Zonker
--
Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier
http://www.dissociatedpress.net/