[CLUE-Talk] OpenSouce Friendly ISP [WAS Re: [CLUE-Tech] Easiest DHCP]

Sun Jan 27 21:41:59 MST 2002

Well, we (OpenSource Friendly ISPs) do exist, but the issue of high speed is
getting more difficult to provide.  The deal the cable companies have
excluding them having to open their network keeps 'open market' competion
away.  And, recently, when the local politicians decided that 'broadband
access for everyone' was interesing enough to make it a politcal concern it
hit the front page of the paper. QWest jumped to the forefront and said that
they hadn't extended their DSL network because 'they couldn't find a
business model that would justify building a multi-billion dollar network
that, due to regulation, they could not sell at retail prices.'  i.e. 'Let
us kick these other guys off our network and your dreams will come true.'

So, if the politicians go for that line, two of the three largely available
high speed technologies (DSL, Cable, and Fixed Wireless) will be tied up
with a *very* small number of providers.  So, the geography of availibility
may grow, but, I'm willing to bet, the price-point demographic will shrink
quite bit.  After all, they have always held to the theory that a smaller
number of customers paying more is better than a larger amount of customers
paying less.

<SOAPBOX/RANT>
Being an ISP and not being one of the large telecom providers puts you in an
interesting spot.  Not only is one of your vendors one of your competitors,
you have to fill the gap between customer expectations and upstream provider
failings.  It is not uncommon (lots of potenital for conspirarcy theories)
that a telecom provider will mysteriously 'have unexplained probelms' with
all the services for a particular, smaller provider.  We've had experiences
with providers that believe ISPs are an 8-5 service.  If we had problems on
a Saturday morning, those issues could wait until 8 AM Monday.

And, before you jump to the conclusion that diversity/mulit-homing is the
answer, remember that no matter who you buy services from in Colorado, you
will likely be riding QWest copper lines and receiving the grade of service
that they provide.

So, if you want to see/support OpenSource friendly ISPs, start buying what
services you can from those that already exist.  So, support your local ISPs
by voting with your money. (TechAngle isn't the only available.  I'm biased,
but honest.)  If you don't start 'voting' now, the choice may evaporate in
the future.
</SOAPBOX/RANT>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier" <jbrockmeier at earthlink.net>
To: <clue-talk at clue.denver.co.us>
Cc: <clue-tech at clue.denver.co.us>
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2002 5:04 PM
Subject: Re: [CLUE-Talk] OpenSouce Friendly ISP [WAS Re: [CLUE-Tech] Easiest
DHCP]

> On Sun, 27 Jan 2002, Randy Arabie wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 27 Jan 2002, Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier wrote:
> >
> > > I saw a commercial the other day making fun of DSL companies by
> > > AT&T... I just thought that was some major chutzpah from a company
> > > that left their customers in a lurch because they were trying
> > > to play hardball with another company...
> >
> > When I get my website up I'm gonna post a letter I wrote to AT&T
> > explaining my resons for dropping their service.  I was happy with
> > them, and had no complaints about the service until the dissruption.
>
> I've had some problems with AT&T, particularly the disruption, but
> I couldn't bring myself to go back to Qworst. The choice is pretty
> much between Evil 1 and Evil 2...
>
> > > I understand, it's damned if you do, damned if you don't. If you
> > > say "I use Linux" you've given them an excuse to refuse to support
> > > anything (according to them, anyway -- "My modem burst into flames!"
> > > "Sorry, sir, our records indicate you use Linux, which isn't
supported.")
> > > but if people don't go on record as using Linux it will never become
> > > a supported option. Sigh.
> >
> > This thread on CLUE almost mirrors a similar discussion on a NetBSD
> > list I subscribe to.  OpenSource OS users are "hiding" from their ISP,
> > hoping their activities don't get noticed.  They know the ISP doesn't
> > want to hear "Linux, BSD, or Unix" if they call with a problem.  And,
they
> > know their LAN nat'ed behind an OpenBSD box violates the "acceptable
use"
> > policy, and they know for certain they will get dropped if the ISP finds
> > out they are running "servers" on that LAN.
> >
> > It makes me wonder why there are no "OpenSource OS" friendly ISP's.
Locally,
> > here in Denver, there are so many out-of-work tech and telecomm people,
it
> > seems that a few could get together and start one.
>
> Well, if anybody has the funds for a start-up, I'm available...
>
> > I suppose there are OpenSource OS agnostic ISP's...I *think* mine is, as
> > I've seen several people on the list who use them and I think there is
> > even an employee who subscribes to this list.  However, I've never seen
an
> > ISP cater to the OpenSource crowd.
>
> Actually, at least when I signed up, Earthlink was at least neutral
> about Linux. Unfortunately, I can't get Earthlink DSL here because
> they go through Covad. When I signed up for Earthlink dial-up after
> moving to Denver, I called and told the guy that I was using Linux
> and needed the basic info -- he was happy to give it to me and didn't
> say anything about it being unsupported. Earthlink is also the
> default client for the new Linux Internet appliance:
> https://homebase.oeone.com/store/index.php?SCREEN=items/1
>
> I guess that's sort-of catering...
>
> > Is it too much of a niche market?  I doubt you could raise capital to
> > become a national contender.  But what about a small local ISP here in
> > Denver?  I would consider switching to an ISP who marketed themselves
> > as OpenSource friendly.
>
> I'd definitely switch if there was a Linux-friendly ISP with
> high-speed (DSL or cable) access.
>
> > I think the big catch here would be Qwest who holds all the cards in the
> > DSL market.  I know they are the ones who forbid "server services"  on
> > the DSL connection.  Likewise with cable.  So, the broadband, OpenSource
> > friendly ISP would be left with dial-up and wireless.  And, I know the
> > guys at TechAngle do wireless ISP, and are Linux (OpenSource) friendly.
>
> Well, I think that might be an ISP policy, not a Qwest policy.
> There are other ISPs who can offer DSL here, where Qwest provides
> the line but the ISP provides everything else -- I'd be curious to
> know what their policies are.
>
> Take care,
>
> Zonker
> --
> Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier -=- jbrockmeier at earthlink.net
> http://www.DissociatedPress.net/
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> "Computers are like Old Testament gods;
>  lots of rules and no mercy." -- Joseph Campbell
>
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