[CLUE-Talk] The prism of our experience

[Timothy C. Klein]

* Randy Arabie (randy at arabie.org) wrote:
> On Thursday, 10 July 2003 at 12:12:13 -0600, Timothy C. Klein <teece at silverklein.net> wrote:
> > * Randy Arabie (randy at arabie.org) wrote:
> > > 
> > > Here's my view of the WMD issue.  I still believe the
> > > Hussein regime had an active WMD program well into last
> > > year.  Perhaps if the coalition had been able to act sooner,
> > > rather than give Hussein a 6-month period to hide the evidence,
> > > we would have found them by now.
> > > 
> > 
> > Ther are a lot of problems with this, at least to me.  GWB and his
> > administration spoke about disarming Saddam.  If simply threatening
> > invasion make him disarm, then their threats were effective.  There was
> > no need to invade -- the threat of WMD went away, let's move.  But we
> > did not move on, we invaded anyway.
> 
> Except, hiding the evidence of an active WMD program isn't the same
> as disarming.  At least in my opinion it isn't.
> 
> If the police told me to relinquish my hand gun, and I
> responded by tucking it into my pants; I don't think they
> would consider that compliance.

Yes, you make a good point.  I thought of this after I wrote the post,
but I was in a hurry to head off to the dentist (yeah, 5 1/2 hours later
I am finally back).

> > > I don't accept your assertion that it was a lie.  I think
> > > WMD was the main reason.
> > 
> > The White House admitted that the Niger uranium link was wrong.  They
> > tried to put a nice spin on it, but I don't see any way around it on
> > that issue.  They lied, or someone was grossly incompetent.  Either way
> > we have a problem.   GWB mentioned that Iraq had attempted to buy
> > uranium from Niger.  But the documents the claim were based on were
> > easlily spotted forgeries.  More, the man dispatched to Niger to check
> > it came back and reported that the story was certainly bunk.  He asserts
> > that, at the very least, Cheney heard this.  This was *months* before
> > GWB gave his state of the union address.  And yet, in that speach, he
> > asserts that Iraq is trying to buy uranium from African countries.
> > 
> > Unless the adiminstration provides evidence of some other attempt from
> > another African country, I don't see how that is not a lie.
> 
> Yes. I agree that there were/are some less than honest
> (entirely dishonest?) assessments made regarding the status
> of the Iraqi regime's nuclear weapons program.
> 
> However, that was not the extent of their efforts to develop
> WMD.
> 
> What of the evidence of other WMD efforts?  Was that all
> falsified, too?

My problem is not with the war, per se. I am not a pacifist -- I think
war is a complete failure of human beings, but sometimes it may be
necessary. And as for the Iraq war, I think that it *could* have been
justified properly. But it was not.

I get the feeling that presenting the evidence honestly would have given
the US public something like a 50/50 split on whether or not the war was
needed. It seems like the GWB admin. sexed up the evidence to make sure
that approval was higher, so that it was politically advantageous. To me,
that is absolutely unacceptable.  When it comes to 250 allied dead, 1000
wounded, several thousand dead Iraq civilians, and billions of dollars,
we need to be able to trust the Pres. of the USA to be 100% honest. In
this case he was not. This trouble me deeply.

Why would GWB and crew feel the need to lie? Saddam was a madman. Saddam
was in violation of UN resolutions. Why make up claims about nuclear
programs that have been dormant for a decade, about UAVs that can strike
at American cities (which is just total nonsense: range of Iraqi UAVs is
300 miles), about knowing exactly where chemical weapons are, and that
the Iraqis have 45 minute deployment orders? We really need the answers
to these questions. At this point, it has nothing to do with WMD, or the
whether or not going to war was right or wrong, or whether Iraq is now a
better place.

I need to know that I can trust the President when it comes to this most
grave of decisions. Right now, I wouldn't buy a used car from the guy,
let alone trust him on more important claims.

Tim
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== Timothy Klein || teece at silver_NO-UCE_klein.net   ==
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== "Hello, World" 17 Errors, 31 Warnings...         ==
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