[CLUE-Talk] Charlie Daniels comments, article about Saddam's sons.

[G. Richard Raab]

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On 2003 March 25 Tuesday 09:39 pm, Sean LeBlanc wrote:
> On 03-23 23:30, Matt Gushee wrote:

> I remember that debacle over Desert Storm and that propaganda about babies
> - that was shameful. But I think some of these other reports - gassing of
> Kurds, the attempted kidnapping of one of the inspectors (Scott ???), etc.,
> hasn't a lot of that been corroborated?

The kidnapping did not happen.  As to the gassing, IIRC, there was a lot of 
words about it and no real evidence (even though I suspect that sadem did do 
something).

>
> Also: where was the outcry over Bosnia? 

Actually, the right wing was all up in arms over it. The republicans were dead 
opposed to it. One of their complaints was sending over troops to stand guard 
(shades of nam/korea). 


>I'm just asking, because it doesn't seem like different situations.

It was and is a very different situation. Clinton and his buddies had nothing 
personally to gain by it. It did get rid of a dictator though. Of course, for 
every dictator that we get rid of, it seems that we install 2 or more brutal 
ones.


> Lastly: there are allegations that the two countries most adamant about not
> going to war (Germany and France) have something to fear about what we
> might find after a regime change and who is involved with Iraq's WMD
> program, and who supplied what.

I doubt that germany and france are any more responsible for WMD's than we  
and Russia are. Back in the early 80's, we had Iraqi's at ColoState doing 
Microbio, who then went on to receive xtra training by our Uncle Sam prioir 
to going back home.  I was told then, that it was biological/chemical 
training. No big deal, they were allies. After all we have provided all sorts 
of useful training (Sadam Huesin, Manual Noriega by head of CIA GB, Bin Laden 
by VP GB). We will find WMD in Iraq. Wether they were there before we got 
there is another matter. I will say though, that nearly all nations today 
possess Biological weapons. This includes N. Korea, Pakistan, Syria, Lybia, 
and Iran. They are extremely easy and extremely cheap. I would be surprised 
if most nations do not possess chemicals. Sarin is very easy to manufacture 
and very effective. I have heard that Vx is also easy to make. Finally, I am 
quite certain that there are a number of nuclear engineers inside of Iraq who 
have had training at various countries. Some fom the early 80's got it here. 
The newer ones went on to france or germany.

>
>
> HOWEVER, and I can't believe I'm saying this, because I hate to come down
> on the same side as the Marxists (WWP), but I have doubts about this war,
> too. I fully support the military; once we are there we have to execute
> this war to win it, but I just can't say anything beyond that I am firmly
> on the fence on why we are there and what this about.

It is ok to be against W. It is ok to be agains tthe war. That does not make 
you unamerican in spite of what this admin says. IRL, it is rarely that you 
are with us or you are against us. Unfortunatly, many ppl are wrapping 
themselves in the flag and calling others unpatriotic for sticking up for the 
constition over a president/DOJ.

> Maybe the
> administration has hard evidence of al-Qaeda ties that they are keeping
> close to their chest, I don't know. 

Zero chance. Remember the gassed puppies from al-qaeda? They were done with 
the kurds. Al-Qaeda hates Husein as much, if not more then they hate us. It 
drives me batty the large number of lies that are coming from this admin and 
ppl totally ignore it. The nuke papers, the al-qaeda ties, the ties to russia 
mility, etc...


>Maybe the OK bombing conspiracy
> theories are true. If either is the case, I wish these were presented to
> the American people, rather than the somewhat nebulous reasons we have been
> given. 

????? huh????


>That isn't to say that I think "it's all about oil" - that's been
> said by dissenters at least since Vietnam, and it doesn't hold water this
> time, either, IMHO. I can only chuckle when I hear "it's revenge for his
> father"...but I cannot really articulate a good reason why we are there,
> and that bothers me.

If this was truely about the atrocities being commited in the world, then we 
would be stopping many other nations long before Iraq, North Korea being the 
first. Likewise, pakistan and many far east countries should be there before 
Iraq. If this was about WMD that can harm America, than N.Korea SHOULD have  
been first. They are busy building nukes. We know that. They also are the 
only ones that have missles that can reach America/Europe. They treat their 
ppl much worse than does Iraq. Yet, w are going after Iraq??? Yeah right.

Watch carefully where the money will flow on the clean up work for Iraq and 
the rebuilding of the nation. The same for Afghanastan. Something to see is 
look at the front page of www.computerjobs.com. BTW, who has more high tech 
industries, Florida or Colorado? 


> Yes, Saddam is an evil, evil man. So were the Sandinistas. Sudan is still
> practicing slavery.  North Korea seems to be using the tried-and-true
> Communist tactic of starving their own people to purge them, and has a
> murderous dictator that would make Stalin proud. As sad as the state of
> affairs are in these places, do we keep invading them until they are, if
> not Westernized, at least a little less murderous and oppressive?

Exactly

>
> But it's not really enough to say that "what has he done to us?" The same
> could have been said about Hitler. I guess it's really hard to strike that
> balance: many folks say if Europe had done something about Hitler before he
> started expansionism, a lot more deaths could have been prevented...so
> those who went for appeasement/pacifism in that case only caused more
> deaths in the long run.

The funny thing is he was freely elected and very popular amongst more of 
germany. After all, he was simply seeking security for his country from all 
the ppl in his country who were trying to destroy it from inside.


- -- 
cheers
g.r.r.
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