[CLUE-Talk] Charlie Daniels comments, article about Saddam's sons.

[Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier]

On Fri, 2003-03-28 at 09:58, David Willson wrote:
> I have to ask now, whether you sincerely believe that I am bowing out
> because my position is indefensible.

I didn't question your motive, I just added that in addition to being
"long on philosophy and short on facts" the position you're taking is
indefensible. You started out with this:

"And I think it is preposterous to group
detention-under-questionable-circumstances with the horrific torture
going on under the Hussein regime."

And when it was pointed out that both are violations of the Geneva
Convention, which is what people have been complaining about in the
first place -- you then went on about how you were "disappointed" to
find out that the Geneva Convention demands more than a lack of torture,
food and shelter. I'd call that indefensible, absolutely. 

> I said that I am 'long on philosophy and short on facts'.  I have no
> desire to bore the readers of this list with my philosophy, and I think
> I made it clear that that is why I'm forgoing further debate, but you
> seem to believe that I lied.  I don't lie, and implying that I did is
> not rebutting my argument, it's insulting me personally.  Would you like
> to withdraw that cheap shot, or do you honestly believe that that is my
> motivation?

As I said earlier, I'm not questioning your motivation, just your
position that the Geneva Convention is somehow disappointing because it
requires that countries give POWs consideration above and beyond
providing food and shelter and not torturing them. 

I didn't imply or state that you lied - I simply added that the position
you took is completely indefensible. 

And, for the record, it's silly to say "I don't lie" -- everyone lies,
sometime. Saying that "I don't lie" is a lie in and of itself. I'm not
saying you're lying on this occasion - but I really, really doubt you've
lived your life without ever telling a lie, and I doubt that you'll live
the rest of your life without telling a few more. 

That's not directed as an insult to you, simply an observation about
human nature - everyone lies, sometime. 

> It would be my privilege to take the time to prove my reasoning, WRT
> withdrawing from this debate, to prove that I am no coward, no idiot,
> and certainly no liar.

I'd just like to see you admit that you were completely off-base in
defending the Bush administration's treatment of the prisoners being
held in Cuba. They're violating the GC, period. That was the start of
the discussion and something you've very studiously avoided directly
confronting. Instead you've wandered off into "well, it's not as bad as
Saddam" and "I'm disappointed the more that I learn about the Geneva
Convention...bunch of lawyers wrote it..."  

Zonker
-- 
Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier
jzb at dissociatedpress.net
Aim: zonkerjoe
http://www.dissociatedpress.net