[clue-talk] Re: Bible Academia

[David L. Willson]

> > Could living eternally, prohibited from entering God's house, be Hell?
> 
> That would be different from it being intrinsic to your current choice, 
> and would still fall under infinite punishment.

I tend to see it as the absence of reward.  I suppose that there might
be no middle-ground, ie: there are the perfect and the forgiven, living
out eternity with God, and there is everyone else, living out eternity
in the "outer darkness".

> > Could God be warning us about Hell, not threatening us with Hell?
> >   
> There isn't really too much talk about hell in the Bible.  Ironically, 
> most of it comes from the New Testament, whereas the God of the Old 
> Testament is very much more concerned with punishment in "real-time."

That doesn't really answer the question, though.  Let us say that Hell
is a choice, or a natural consequence of a choice, and that since God
gives us freedom to choose, mightn't he be warning us, something along
the lines of:  "Careful of that cliff there.  I am the way the truth and
the light.  I happen also to be standing in the right spot.  None cometh
away from the cliff but by me (because it's pretty narrow way).  Put
down your - Oops, there goes your buddy.  Now, put that junk down and
follow me."

> > Could God have abilities of mind so far beyond ours that we have no
> > right or ability to judge him?
> >   
> I think we all have the duty to make the best judgment we can, even when 
> it comes to God.  In fact, if you believe there is a God and we were 
> given free will, I would argue we were MEANT to do this.

Very, very well said.
> 
> > I walked alone for several lonely and trouble-filled years before
> > returning my focus to my God and my Jesus.  One of the primary reasons
> > that I stopped "being Christian" was that "If Tom's going to Hell, for
> > the lack of belief, then I can't worship God."  My friend Tom was and is
> > one of my most admired friends, and was and is, a total atheist,
> > entirely apathetic to God, and annoyed by most forms of religion.
> >   
> You could have just rejected the doctrine that said that Tom was going 
> to hell, you know.  You don't have to believe in every last syllable... 
> we cherry-pick the stuff we want to believe out of the Bible anyway.

I'm not sure, but I am not sure that I could reject Hell comepletely
without also rejecting Christianity.  I have successfully reframed it.
I generally think it's wrong to reject teaching from qualified sources.
To say that no one can know God better than me is immature.  I look for
knowledge.  I like to think of myself like a child, eager to learn,
ready for correction, and actively looking for chores that I'm capable
of doing.  For everything I know, about language, sociology, math, even
about the nature of God, there is someone who knows more, and who is
willing to share knowledge to help me along my road.  I will do well to
have my eyes and ears wide open, even if I must disassemble everything I
collect later, in order to make sure each part is good.

> For example, is it right or wrong to stone a woman who was caught in 
> adultery?  The God of the Old Testament prescribed this measure.  Then 
> Jesus changed our thinking about this.  So which is right?  We pick 
> which is right.  Most people pick Jesus.

Jesus preaches forgiveness.  Forgiveness is good.  Punishment is also
good.  Without punishment, few people learn.  Even my infinitely sweet
children do not learn without an occasional barking at.  Punishment
~and~ forgiveness, now that's a powerful combo.  BTW, do you have a
reference for the recommendation to stone adulteresses?  I'd like to
read it for context.  I'm sure it's there, I just wonder how much of the
driving on that code was God and how much was Man.