[clue-talk] How do CLUEbies vote?

[Brian Gibson]

Since David addressed me specifically I'll provide a
response.  I'll _try_ to keep my responses brief.

> anyway, so why try to stop it?
>
There's nothing wrong with trying to stop it, but
attempting to abolish it is the wrong tactic.
Eliminate the causes of situations that lead to those
abortions you don't deem acceptable.

> The unborn is a human, and should have the rights
> that we associate with
> our humanity.  

This is that arbitrary line I mentioned.  At what
point does a fertilized egg go from a collection of
cells to being a human baby?  Some say it's the point
of conception.  Now if that is your stance, there is
no point in continuing because we're then delving into
metaphysics.  If it isn't, then you have to concede a
line does exist.  Currently that line is prior to the
point of viability.  The validity of that point is
certainly a point of contention, but it's what's been
agreed upon.  At least it's highly restrictive to have
one that late.  90% of all abortions occur during the
first trimester which is at the embryonic or early
fetal stage, which most would call (at best) a
_potential_ person which is obviously before that
point of transition to being a human.  Perhaps in the
future, should we develop artificial wombs, abortions
wouldn't be necessary because safe haven laws could be
expanded to pre-births.

> convenient.  How ridiculous.  In what sort of
> society would we not even
> try to defend the defenseless?  Apparently, ~this~
> sort of society.
> Shame on us.  Let us be shamed into action.
> 
Supporting abortion hasn't increased our acceptance of
murder, rape, theft, or other abuse.  Nor is it a
direct cause of any increase in these activities.
(Though the authors of Freakonomics advocate the idea
that it has lead to a decrease in said activities.) 
So this society is acceptable to me.  Besides I think
there are more pressing issues to address.

> defenseless.  Wouldn't you have spoken out against
> slavery, against the
> Holocaust?  
> Wouldn't you have sheltered one slave,
> bought him and then
> set him free, or hidden one refugee?  What does it
> mean to know that
> nearly 50 million people have been killed over
> inconvenience and do
> nothing about it?  By way of comparison, 6 million
> people died in the
> Nazi holocaust, and half a million were dragged from
> their homes and
> enslaved here in America.  Why do you keep silent
> now or worse, defend
> it?

Projecting our values to past events is nothing more
than a futile thought experiment because chances are
if you were a person during that time you would most
likely not act in the same way you would now.

Take that 50 million "people" and compare that to the
annual miscarriage rate times the population of the
world for a given year summed over all the years of
human existence.  

What you need to realize is what is criminal is not a
preventable abortion but the circumstances that lead
up to the choice itself.  What is criminal is
ill-preparing the populous by not empowering them with
the knowledge they need to make informed choices, and
that's not isolated just to abortion.




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