[clue-talk] Dave R's Weak Intro To Judaism

Tue Jun 3 03:17:45 MDT 2008

Kevin, it's always good to hear from you.

For anyone that wants to read the verses Kevin mentioned, in context:

Deuteronomy 6 (see verse 5)
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deut%206;&version=50;

Leviticus 19 (see verse 34)
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus%2019;&version=50;

On Mon, 2 Jun 2008 20:43:56 -0600, Kevin Cullis wrote
> Dave and Louis,
> 
> And do you think Christianity is any different in some of your  
> perspective? Do you know how many Christians have some of the same  
> "distant" emotional reactions but over different issues? How about  
> Atheists? Same in some cases, but for different reasons as well.
> 
> There are two extremes in all religions and non-religions: open  
> mindedness (all things are OK) and asceticism (most things if not ALL  
> things are not OK) and depends on the viewpoint.
> 
> Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:34 are both applicable to Jews and  
> Christians, no other religion follows this same path. All other  
> commandments "hook onto" these two commandments. If you "Love your  
> neighbor AS yourself" you'll "not compete" with those that are below  
> or above yourself. The true measure of a society is how well they  
> take care of those that are less fortunate. For those that are lazy,  
> that's something else.
> One of the serious obstacles to the improvement of our race is  
> indiscriminate charity - Andrew Carnegie
> 
> Interesting thoughts.
> 
> Kevin
> 
> On Jun 2, 2008, at 5:47 PM, David Rudder wrote:
> 
> > My support for Judaism is tepid at best.  I'm certainly not the one to
> > argue it either way.  I understand your feelings, and to an extent  
> > I can
> > sympathize.  But, I've been living la vida goyim for so long that I
> > don't think I'm comfortable talking on this subject.
> >
> > I'm sorry to hear about your mom.
> >
> > -Dave
> >
> > Louis Miller wrote:
> >> David,
> >>
> >>      I was raised Jewish, in northern california, and the way you  
> >> describe it is very different from my conception of the religion.  
> >> To me it is about greed and selfishness and letting others do  
> >> their own thing. My mom has told me before that she wanted to  
> >> commit suicide, and I felt that I shouldn't interfere in what is  
> >> her life and her decisions. We ate pig's meat, and never  
> >> questioned it, and there was no gentile around influencing us. We  
> >> ate shellfish, too. But, we went to a reform temple. Jews are very  
> >> serious about making money and pretending that you don't exist if  
> >> you become poor. And they are serious about being cheapskates.  
> >> They are distant, emotionally.
> >>
> >> Louis Miller
> >>
> >> --- david.rudder at reliableresponse.net wrote:
> >>
> >> From: David Rudder <david.rudder at reliableresponse.net>
> >> To: CLUE talk <clue-talk at cluedenver.org>
> >> Subject: [clue-talk] Dave R's Weak Intro To Judaism
> >> Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2008 14:20:17 -0600
> >>
> >> David L. Willson wrote:
> >>> In this case, if the Jewish system dictates that God ensouls a  
> >>> child when it first draws
> >>> breath, then to a devout Jew, the destruction of a fetus or  
> >>> embryo is insignificant.
> >>>
> >>
> >> *pftftt*  Don't believe it!  I was being disingenuous when I said
> >> Judaism isn't against abortion.
> >>
> >> To Jews, a fetus is a part of the woman.  To Jews, damaging yourself
> >> intentionally is a serious no-no.  For instance, if you pierce your
> >> ears, the *minimum* punishment is that you can't be buried in a  
> >> Jewish
> >> grave.  Since it's a tradition to purchase a family grave site where
> >> everyone is buried together, this means you're outcast in front of  
> >> your
> >> whole extended family, for long after you're dead.  Which means  
> >> lasting
> >> shame on your mother, which is about as serious as it gets to a Jew.
> >> For *getting your ears pierced*  Just think about what your mother  
> >> would
> >> say if you got an abortion.
> >>
> >> Sure, abortion isn't considered murder, but the severity of the crime
> >> isn't much below murder.
> >>
> >> Eating lobster?  Abomination!!!!   A woman learning to read?
> >> Abomination!!!!  I don't even want to think about what the punishment
> >> for my vasectomy would be if I were orthodox.
> >>
> >> Seriously, we Jews are pretty hard-core.  That's why you see a lot of
> >> Rabbis on the pro-life side.
> >>
> >> If anyone is wondering how closely I follow these laws, I invite you
> >> over to inspect my home bacon making kit.  And my gentile wife.   
> >> Um...
> >> forget that...no inspecting the wife.  I work Friday nights, I've  
> >> taught
> >> my daughter to read, I pierced my ear 18 years ago (and filled in the
> >> hole 16 years ago), I've built accounting systems for the lobster
> >> fishing trade, etc.  I'm a baaaaaad Jew.
> >>
> >> -Dave
> >>
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> >>
> >>
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-- David
abolish abortion