[clue-talk] Wow, Card's a little political...

[Nate Duehr]

On Nov 1, 2008, at 5:23 PM, Angelo Bertolli wrote:

> Thanks Nate for making so many responses... I don't think we think  
> all that differently.
>
> Nate Duehr wrote:
>> What Obama's been doing for decades is promising that he'll help  
>> poor people out of their predicament, and delivering things like  
>> bad loans to them, prolonging the problem.  That's not a very good  
>> track record.   He put the nails in the coffin by spending $4  
>> million on his "I love me, don't you?" informercial the other  
>> night.  With his poll numbers, he's likely to win... why do a 1/2  
>> hour TV show?  Send that $4 million back to his "neighborhood",  
>> perhaps?  Not a chance.  He's just as much of a party shill as  
>> McCain is right now... he has to be.  They both do.
>
> Ok then we can agree this is a vote for party rather than the man.   
> Although I get the impression you're hoping McCain is just playing  
> the Republicans for now.  But either way, McCain can't have his cake  
> and eat it too.  He won't be able to convince people that he doesn't  
> tow the party line ("if you wanted to run against Bush...") while at  
> the same time bending over for them.

I disagree.  I'll still vote for the man, not the Party.  If we don't,  
we're just buying into the Party horse-pucky.  It's also the reason I  
voted for Kerry instead of Bush.  Yeah, that's probably a shocker for  
some reading my opinions this year, eh?

McCain's a guy who fights the battles he can win.  A pragmatist.  Look  
at his stance on Immigration for example... he's not a "lock the  
borders" ultra-Right wack-job.  He's just surrounded by them.   
Politics is nasty, so what?  He's stepped on more of his own Party's  
toes over the years than Obama has.

Obama on the other hand appears to be a guy who wants to win at all  
costs, including pandering to the poor.  I can't abide voting for more  
of that.  That's the same thing as the guy running Lehman Brothers, in  
a cheaper suit.  Can Obama stand up to his own Party?  I do NOT think  
he can.  He doesn't have the character.  What he has going for him is  
charisma, which is a completely different thing.

> Personally I would have been a lot more on your page if he hadn't  
> picked Palin.  Picking Palin sort of indicated to me that he was  
> willing to go "too far" and that the rather than playing nice to the  
> Republican party,  he was now their puppet.  I seriously might be  
> voting for McCain if he had picked someone who seemed like they at  
> least knew how to play the game.  Disparaging remarks about the  
> office of VP aside, the President needs as many good people around  
> him as possible.  It's a possible indicator of how he chooses his  
> cabinet.

I think he knew he badly needed women voters, he needed religious  
voters, and he needed the heartland states where the electoral votes  
will count more than here.

Ironically if the mixed "fears" that Palin is "unqualified" (which I'm  
still waiting for the answer to -- unqualified to do WHAT?  Is anyone  
really "qualified" to run a country or act as VP of one?  Is there a  
"VP School" somewhere?) ... are mixed with the fears that Palin has  
some wacked-out religious agenda and will somehow pass laws to enact  
those beliefs (last I checked, the VP can't do that)... obviously if  
someone believes both, she can't possibly get it done.  I think the  
real fear is that she's GOOD at what she does.

And what did she do?  Cut the pork in Alaska and do what her  
constituents wanted.  Wow.  A politician who will do what they say  
they will.  I'm soooo scared.

> Oh how much better off we would have been if McCain had gotten what  
> he deserved and won in 2000...

Agreed there.  At one time I said a McCain/Powell ticket would have  
swept the world.  It didn't happen.

> Well maybe I give the same benefit of the doubt to Obama that you  
> give McCain.  But I really don't like the way Obama is glorified  
> either,  and I don't prefer him because of the things he's said.   
> I'm just freaking scared of the Republicans at this point based on  
> what I've watched from their rallies.  Maybe that's because I've  
> watched more Republican rallies, and I really would just hate  
> everyone equally.  My friend, on the other hand, says he just  
> doesn't trust Obama... so it all comes down to trust, I guess.

What have you watched?  I'm still really curious about this.  I've  
been watching rallies of both on C-SPAN for quite a while now, and I'm  
not seeing anything other than two candidates pandering to their  
bases.  In Obama's case, he's pandering to Liberals who want the  
"ultimate kill" toward Socialism because it's "time for fundamental  
change", and McCain's pandering to the small-town hard-working folks.

Since I identify a lot more (mostly because of family history, not  
because I'm a small town country boy myself) with the hard-working  
type, as a non-degreed guy who worked hard enough to make a  
considerably higher salary than the median or mean salaries in this  
great country -- I'd kinda like to keep what I earned through my work.

I see Obama as a guy who wants to take what I earned and hand it to  
the same people who've run companies I've worked hard for, into the  
ground.  I also see a tendency of a lot of comfortable people in the  
'burbs in cities to want to vote to "help" him with his socialistic  
vision to help the poor or whatever.  I think they'll be quite  
disillusioned with the results.

Hard work and personal responsibility pays off, always.  If tomorrow I  
wake up and what I've accomplished for myself and my family is  
suddenly no longer true, I'll start "believing" that I should let  
Obama take money from the rich and give it to me.  Until then, I'll be  
working on my own "American Dream", not Obama's, thanks.  His  
continual advertising that "America is broken" just isn't true in this  
household.  I go out, I work, I make money, I save... it works for me.

Is building a real future for myself and my family a struggle?   
Absolutely.  It's a hell of a lot easier for me than it was for my  
grandparents (all of whom I was lucky enough to know) during the  
1930's.  Am I willing to do it?  Yes.  Would having more of my money  
taken away to fund someone else's dream be a severe blow to my  
motivation to even try?  Yep.

Nothing ... absolutely NOTHING in history shows that socializing  
healthcare makes it better.  Nothing shows that higher taxes on  
capital gains or government leads to real sustainable growth.  Nothing  
shows that ANY of his policies will help anyone but those already on a  
government dole.  It concerns me deeply that people think they will  
without any proof.  They're just following the populist wave created  
by electing Bush and finding out his character was lacking.

I knew that back when I voted against him.   He was a rich kid from  
Maine who grew up in Texas, got where he was by his father's  
influence, and never held a real job in his life.

I think Obama's an incredible person, but he's not good enough to  
fight his whole Party.  No one is.

--
Nate Duehr
nate at natetech.com