[clue-talk] Obama, McCain, and the American flag

[Brian Gibson]

Because you are born with rights.  You are not fertilized with them.



----- Original Message ----
From: David L. Willson <DLWillson at TheGeek.NU>
To: CLUE talk <clue-talk at cluedenver.org>
Cc: Geo Fox <gfox55 at hotmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 2, 2008 7:18:25 PM
Subject: Re: [clue-talk] Obama, McCain, and the American flag

[Brian]
Killing another is wrong period.  Whether you do it in self-defense or out of malice, for your country at the behest of some person in an oval office and the approval of legislators or in the name of some mythical dude up in the sky, to fight for rights or to suppress them... it doesn't matter what justification you give, it still does not erase the fact that killing is wrong.  However, there are conflicts where unfortunately the only action left at your disposal may be lethal violence because the opponent leaves you no choice in the matter.  Don't be so naive to believe that just because you are killing in the name of a noble cause, that it somehow makes killing a good thing, even in the case of executing a criminal who has done a heinous crime against the world.  There is a reason that violence and lethal force is the option of last resort in any conflict resolution, and the non-lethal option always trumps the lethal one.  Because a person's life is
 irreplaceable and it infringes on their right to have one.  Don't ever think that it's right to take a life.  (And Wilson, don't bother chiming in; I don't see the point in discussing when life, personhood, etc. begins because I already know your position and you're not going to change mine.)

[Willson]
You're ~dreaming~ if you think I won't chime in here.  This is one of the perennial questions with regard to the Democrat stance.  How do you defend this perspective, which reads, to me, like this:  "Human life is sacred.  Human rights are sacred.  The human right to life is super-sacred, but not unborn human life, that's different."  OK, Brian.  I can see that you've thoroughly worked through your party's position, and you're committed to it, no matter how internally inconsistent it may seem.  I rarely invoke 1984, because I like to think that Orwell was just depressed, but seriously, that doesn't seem like double-think to you?  Let's take the same question a different way:  Why is every other apparent differentiator between humans, skin color, sexual preference, sex, social position ... a cause for "affirmative action" for the protection of the minority, the voice-less, help-less, power-less?  Why do Democrats defend every sort of human that might seem
 embattled, except the unborn ones?  A third time I'll put the same question, the same apparent internal contradiction, in different words, and then I'm done "not chiming in":  Why is a black Democrat leader willing to stand idly by while a group of humans is left ... (I have gone through several possible words here, but I can't settle on one.  What were black slaves in the 1800's?  They were many things.  Undefended, unprotected, marginalized, dehumanized, abused, owned, without represenation, etc.  Ah, I have it.) ... enslaved?

Brian, just answer the question if you would, I really want to resolve that apparent inconsistency in the Democratic position.  Others, read on if you like:

Two crimes we as a society are signing off on, the killing of our young, and the continued offering of this violent and dishonorable choice to our young people.  This awful choice with permanent consequences we offer to people who are in a desperate, but temporary, situation.  Those people may not otherwise be violent or dishonorable.  It is wrong for us, as a caring community, to offer this choice, to ask desperate people in a state of panic if they want to kill their own young to get out of it.  We are tempting them, often beyond their ability to resist, and it is wrong of us.  Desperate young people will do desperate things.  I know, I did.

When we don't fight it, unborn people will die, and young people will assume life-long, lasting guilt.
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