[clue-talk] A Significantly Better Mousetrap, was Re: [clue-tech] Mephis linux

[Nate Duehr]

David L. Willson wrote:
> What ~are~ you doing on this list?  Did you join it when you liked Linux, or something?

Hmm, kinda. CLUE didn't exist when I started using Linux.  :-)  BLUG 
did, but it was still meeting at NCAR.  (GRIN)

> Some of your gripes don't fit.  The Free software ecosystem is different than the proprietary software ecosystem.  Funding, feedback, and focus of effort all work very differently in this mostly-volunteer space than they do in the proprietary software space.  You seem to assert that they don't work.  That's fine, but please recognize that that is your minority opinion, in the industry, which has adopted Free software, and especially ~here~ at CLUE.  Linux is better than MacOS.  See how I didn't state that as an opinion, or back it up with fact, rather than more opinion?  I find it grating when other people do that.

I guess this is one of the areas in which we differ.  I don't really 
care if you state "Linux is better than MacOS".  For you, that's your 
reality.  Works for me.  Nothing to get worked up over.

> Nobody is telling you to "fix it yourself" or that you have to be a developer, that I know of, but I personally am allergic to whining, bitching, and complaining, whenever it isn't accompanied by a healthy dose of working, leading, and suggesting.  I trust and rely on problem-solvers.  Whiners have a very narrow scope of usefulness.  That seems to be what you're doing here, and if this were a dev list, it might be useful, but since it's an enthusiast list, I'm damned if I know what your purpose is.  Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting that you become a developer, I'm suggesting that you become productive or purposeful, because your berating of my favorite Free stuph, stinks.  Offer good ideas.  I mean, isn't that a no-brainer?  Um...  How about, "If you don't have anything good to say..."

How would you suggest an end-user "lead" other than to openly discuss 
the state of how they feel the software works?  I'm not going to work on 
Linux for free, but I'll discuss its merits right alongside any other OS 
out there.  I have no intention of fixing other people's software for 
the many reasons mentioned already, though.

I thought I *had* been offering good ideas.  Let me be more direct.

"Drop having six different desktops on Linux, and focus on one good one, 
Developers!"

Yeah, that's not going to happen, I guess.  So maybe it's a fruitless 
discussion in the end.  And perhaps that's my point.  It'll NEVER be 
addressed.

> Your ~attitude~... You claim to be having fun.  Are you having fun at the expense of your friends here on the Colorado Linux Users and Enthusiasts list?  You think you might be ready for a "second career".  I'd like to hasten you on your way, I think.  I've debated with you, perhaps productively, on this list in the past, but this time, I am entirely unable to find the meaning, the purpose, the reason, for your speech.

No, I'm not meaning to bother you.  I find it interesting that it does, 
actually.  Why?  What skin do you have in the Linux game?  If a Linux 
list can't openly discuss both the good and bad points of Linux, it's 
kinda one-sided, isn't it?

My point is to discuss DEEP institutional problems with open-source 
style development that Linux is derived from and see if there's any way 
to shake the devs and "mangement" (well there's no management... which 
is one problem...) awake a little bit.  Linux isn't gaining ground, it's 
just holding its own.  I liked Linux better when it was gaining ground. 
  It stopped when it hit the brick wall of "Not Having any Real 
Direction(TM)", I think.  That's what I've been discussing...

Where's Linux going?  Anywhere?  The same places it is today?  Is there 
any potential to be really great now that it's successfully copy-catting 
the commercial development world?  Can it do better?

That's my discussion topics.  I'm not trying to make you mad, I'm just 
looking down the road 10 years and seeing if there's any hope for the 
current Linux development process to produce BETTER software than I can 
get for roughly $100 at any computer store or pre-installed on various 
hardware.

> I think, maybe, you're trolling, but I thought that activity was the purvey of those with not enough to do, and somewhere along the way, I got the impression that you were a busy man.  Maybe not so much, I guess.  I have to say that you're not winning my referral business any time soon with an attitude like the one you're showing here.

Not trolling.  Did just get back from vacation and not super-busy at the 
moment, and like on all good vacations, was retrospective of how I'm 
spending my time.  Dropping about 10 mailing lists was considered. 
Dropping the local Linux lists wasn't on that "mental list" though. 
There's good people here.  Dropping running the home Linux server and 
letting someone else deal with the box was on the list of possibilities 
though.  "Cleaning house" of things that aren't leading to long-term 
goals, I guess.

Linux servers and running them make a difference in my life and even 
made me some money over the years.  Messing with the Linux desktop or 
helping friends with it, hasn't really... not something for other Linux 
fans to be upset about, I don't think.  I know there are a small 
minority on this list that professionally support Linux desktops, but 
most of us here just use it for ourselves.  I guess I'm thinking it's 
something I don't really need to waste any more time on, personally. 
During that process I also had to think about "Why" it's maybe a waste 
of time to me... personally.

Just sharing those thoughts with the Linux pros and fans locally that I 
trust here on the list to see if I'm insane.  Perhaps I am?  Hahah...

Let's just say I've always been a packrat and letting go of the Linux 
desktop is mentally difficult, but I haven't been convinced by anyone 
that it's really going to be better than desktops I can buy relatively 
inexpensively, probably forever?

Nate