[clue-talk] Wow, Card's a little political...

[Jed S. Baer]

On Fri, 31 Oct 2008 23:55:05 -0400
Angelo Bertolli wrote:

> Jed S. Baer wrote:
> > "Disaster capitalism"? Please, point to any example where the sincere
> > pursuit of socialism has resulted in prosperity for "the masses". See
> > again the CSM article I linked above. Actually, I don't even know if
> > that's a good reply, since I can't imagine what you're referring to by
> > such terminology.
> >   
> 
> The United States and Sweden are two examples of countries that have 
> both created strong basis for economy (according to McCain) through 
> socialist ideas.  Are you really going to deny that it is the socialist 
> side of our capitalistic democracies that creates a strong middle class?

Please point to the "strong middle class" in the Soviet Union.

The United States thrived because of capitalism. Yes, I absolutely deny
that socialism is responsible for the incredible economic growth of the
U.S.

Also, the U.S. is a Republic, not a democracy.

Don't know a lot about Sweden, but it is nominally a Constitutional
Monarchy, though real political power is vested in the parliament.
Wikipedia says it has a "market economy". Here's a bit of interesting
paste:

 =============
Sweden has always provided solid support for free trade (except
agriculture), free immigration, and strong property rights. After World
War II a succession of governments increased the welfare state and the
tax burden, and Sweden's GDP per capita ranking fell from the 4th to 14th
place in a few decades.[80]

Sweden started to move away from this model in the 1980s, and according
to OECD and McKinsey, Sweden has recently been relatively fast in
liberalization compared to countries such as France. Deregulation-induced
competition helped Sweden to halt the economic decline and restore strong
growth rates in the 2000s.[81][69] The current Swedish government is
continuing the trend to pursue moderate reforms.[82][69] Growth has been
higher than in many other EU-15 countries.
 =============

Free trade and strong support for property rights are hardly hallmarks of
socialism. Note the results cited there for how GDP fell as the welfare
state grew. Note the part about de-regulation.

So, Sweden has socialized medicine, welfare, etc.? My opinion would then
be that Sweden has done well despite that, not because of it.

jed