[clue-talk] Vmware ESX / VI, WTF?

[Nate Duehr]

David Rudder wrote:
> I have to say here that I agree with David Willson.
> ESX is a server-side product.  Not just that, but it's a cross-platform, 
> server-side product.  It's just silly to make something like that that 
> can't be managed from a variety of platforms.  

Silly, yes.  Business show-stopper?  No.  Not for the majority with LOTS 
of systems under VMWare "management".  That was my only point.  VMWare 
won't care until a 1000 deployment Linux shop says no.

Are there any 100 server Linux shops running VMWare and PAYING for it 
(not using the free VMWare Server)?  I doubt it.

Thus... not VMWare's real bread-and-butter marketspace.  They're not 
stupid... they know this.  Or they'd already have a Linux client done or 
be promising it.

That's my thoughts on it, anyway... they'll probably do a Linux client, 
and it was probably back-burner priority from the very beginning.  A 
"Best Effort" type of thing.  And when they chose .Net, "best effort" 
became "Oh well!  Will we lose any money?  No.  Okay... keep going."

> My product, Reliable 
> Response Notification, won't look pretty, but you can use it from an 
> archaic Mosaic installation or even Lynx.  Because I expect my customers 
> to be on HP/UX or a VT-100 or something that can't drive Internet 
> Explorer.  


Right, and VMWare probably has good data to expect that their customers 
have at least one Windows machine lying around.   Thus, they KNEW they 
didn't have to care about a Linux client.  You think they're that dumb? 
  If you know your customer, is it a given somehow that they don't know 
theirs?

> In fact, this is the exact reason why the web interface is so 
> important...because it's cross platform and doesn't require root privs 
> to install.

Web browsers make for horrible UI's, but nevertheless, they're common. 
I'd give my left testicle to have the Windows desktop version of Siebel 
back over their web-based one, for example.  I don't see any vendors 
dropping support for GUI API's in their OS's because "web browser 
interfaces are so good -- why would we bother with GUI API's?"  Ya know?

> Nobody chooses my software because it supports these different 
> platforms.  They choose it because it's got the best device support, 
> best tracking and logging, best enterprise integrations, best support, 
> etc.  They are *able to use* my software because it supports their 
> platform.

Fair argument.  Would those same users load $100 copy of an OS and just 
move on if you said, "Building all this cross-platform stuff is a pain"? 
  VMWare did.  They apparently didn't have too many worries at night 
about it.

> It doesn't sound like David's going to just start ripping everything 
> apart because of this.  He's a professional, you know.  But, I think 
> it's totally fair to be a) pissed, and b) looking for a new solution to 
> put in place when the time is ripe.

I know.  Pissed is a bad time to decide important technology decisions, 
though.  ;-)  "Pissed" leads to stuff like the KDE/Gnome/Enlightenment 
mess (most of those folks simply won't work together and never will -- 
they're "pissed" -- they care about the end-user experience all the way 
up until they hit that wall between them and the other group, then 
"pissed" wins out and the users lose).

> BTW...I love OpenVZ, but only if you can standardize on 100% linux, and 
> all using the same kernel.

Been playing with Xen here.  Not all that impressed.  Not very impressed 
with any of them for remote desktop stuff.  Running servers, 
virtualization is great.  Running remote desktops, Citrix did a better 
job of it 10 years ago... they were limited to one platform, but things 
like integrating clipboards, control characters, all that "wonky" stuff 
that has to be dealt with cross-platform... didn't have to be when they 
limited themselves to one platform either.

I had "Citrix devices" that booted from the network and had no local 
hard drive in 1998.  10 years later, that same technology wandered back 
into cross-platform virtualization and lost its way somewhere...

I'm just very unimpressed at all the "wandering in the wilderness" IT 
has been doing since the 2000 bubble burst... as if this stuff is new?

VMWare took server virtualization of modern OSs out into the world and 
made it popular (great marketing), but Mainframes and VAXes had this 
"problem" already solved many decades prior (and still do)...

Nate