<HTML><BODY style="word-wrap: break-word; -khtml-nbsp-mode: space; -khtml-line-break: after-white-space; ">Dennis and Michael,<DIV><BR><DIV><DIV>On Sep 29, 2007, at 8:15 AM, Dennis J Perkins wrote:</DIV><BR class="Apple-interchange-newline"><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><FONT face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica">One person doesn't believe in God but lives a good life and is generous,</FONT></P> <P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><FONT face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica">honest and helpful, Another person believes in God but is a cheat and a</FONT></P> <P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><FONT face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica">thief, lies to people, maybe even kills someone.<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN>Which goes to heaven?</FONT></P> <P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><FONT face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica">If it is the second man, this God does not seem very just or worth</FONT></P> <P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><FONT face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica">following. Yet this is exactly what some people believe and how some</FONT></P> <P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><FONT face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica">people live.</FONT></P> </BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></DIV><DIV>So here's where there are some issues that need to be determined.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>First issue: is there a heaven?</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Second issue: how do I get there?</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Third issue: if there is a heaven, then what?</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV><SPAN class="Apple-style-span">With the first issue, Michael states "I am choosing to spend my time living this life. If there's an afterlife, <B>then it'll be a surprise.</B> If there is, I'll join the 99.999% of all human beings who have ever lived that chose the wrong religion to get into heaven. I don't agree with the "we will pay for our beliefs" bit. If the atheists are right, there'll be nothing to pay. Once a person dies, they are dead, that's it."</SPAN></DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Michael, you just stated that you don't agree that "we pay for our beliefs" and in the previous sentence you said "then it'll be a surprise," do you see your disconnect here? Everyone has to face their mortality, so you do pay for your beliefs if you are wrong in them, just as I do. If the atheists are right, even though I believe in God, and to a greater degree Jesus Christ's way of getting into heaven, we both win if the atheists are right, there are no losers. BUT, and this is a big BUT, what if what if the Bible states is right and there is a heaven, then the atheist loses!!! That's why some Christians become so emphatic, we don't want anyone to be losers, but some of us go overboard and verbally "put a gun to your head" so that we convict you and that's where we go wrong, and we do. A Christian's purpose is to express and explain the Bible so that you understand, then let God the Holy Spirit convict you of the truthfulness of the words. Now, whether you take the next step and believe is now up to you, we've done what we're suppose to do, explain until you understand, but then let you or anyone else decide, not push you into it.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">In the "how do I get to heaven" question, all religions say there is a heaven but are not definitive as to how to get there and do not guarantee that you'll get there, sort of "you MIGHT get there" attitude. There are also differing religious requirements as you have to DO something here on earth in order to get into heaven. Christianity, specifically the Bible states this, is the ONLY religion that guarantees getting into heaven, but even some Christians don't believe this either. But, you do not have to do ANYTHING here on earth to get into heaven, only have a trust in someone else doing something FOR you. The Jewish religion is based on a similar approach, we've sinned, we need to be forgiven. All others you have to "make up your errors," in Christianity, Jesus took care of this part, now it's on to the next part.</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Dennis, based on the above comments most Christians do NOT know of their rewards, or lack of them based on their works, after they've achieved the "getting into heaven" part of becoming a Christian. Getting into heaven is guaranteed and eternal by the Bible, but AFTER you believe your rewards are still up for grabs. Too often some Christians believe that "now that I'm in, I can get away with murder" which technically is true, but God knows each and everyone of us and will exact the correct penalty for our sins, even after getting our "get into heaven" card at the moment of salvation. As you stated above "If it is the second man, this God does not seem very just or worth following. Yet, this is exactly what some people believe and how some people live." Oh, God is just, you just may not see it from your own eyes. This is where the rewards come into play and which most Christians are in denial, which you've alluded to in your comment. Even God states in the Bible "some will come in My Name" but will be rejected by Him. Bottom line: whether Christian or not, we'll all get what is coming to us, so is each of us ready for our own mortality?</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Kevin</DIV></BODY></HTML>