[CLUE-Tech] Upgrading to Red Hat V7.2 - Experiences?

[Lawrence Layman]

Hear, hear !!

Larry Layman

Dan Harris wrote:

> While I agree with you that RedHat has made some serious efforts to make
> Linux easier "for the masses", I disagree that this is a bad thing.
>
> I have been a RedHat user for 4 years now and have seen more GUI stuff
> with each release.  If they FORCED you to use it, that's one thing, but
> mereley having these features I feel is a step in the right direction
> for RedHat and Linux in general.  In order for Linux to continue to grow
>   past the market segment of us "geeks", they need to get more
> point-and-clicky.  Of course those of us who understand the inner
> workings of the OS are always going to have an advantage compared to
> those who just know where X,Y,Z icons live in KDE.  But let's look at
> the big picture.  I hope that you guys are interested in seeing Linux
> keep moving into the mainstream, and frankly it's not going to make it
> far without something similar to what the average user is accustomed to,
> GUI's.
>
> Should we really expect the "average" user to know how to edit their
> printcap file just so they can print a document?  I don't think so.  If
> they can click a button and make it print, THAT is going to keep them as
> users.  I pray that in future versions of RedHat or any other distro,
> new users will not drop it like a hot rock because they learn that they
> need 12 different dependencies to compile before they can get their
> browser or word processor or what-not to work.
>
> We, as enthusiasts, are willing to put up with some of the more
> difficult aspects of working with a *nix system.  But we are a definite
> minority.  The others sit down on their computer to perform certain
> functions.  They need to do it as quickly and efficiently as possible.
> They don't want to read README files, they don't want to debug "make"
> errors, they don't even want to SEE a command-line interface.  They want
> all of their apps to have the same "look and feel" as what they are used
> to (Windows).  They want to "work using the computer", not "work on the
> computer".
>
> I use RedHat on 5 servers now plus my home workstation.  I do 98% of my
> admin work from bash.  It works, and it's what I prefer.  You can always
> choose not to install the GUI tools also.  I've got a few servers that
> don't even have X installed. They hum along 24/7 with no complaints.  I
> can admin them just as efficiently and understand just as much about the
>   distro as a Slackware user or Debian, or (insert favorite bare-bones
> distro).
>
> If Linux is to move forward and become a real threat on the desktop,
> distro makers NEED to put these gui features in.  Otherwise, they are
> not going to get out of the server closets.
>
> -Dan Harris
>
> > <beginrant>
> > I remember the same argument when I started out on the web development path with
> > M$ FrontPage97. "You can edit HTML if you want to; don't have to use the WYSIWYG
> > editor, ya know." Thankfully, my mentor *insisted* I do her projects via a text
> > editor, so I would learn HTML, not just the FrontPage tool.
> >
> > This was wise move, for at the time, FrontPage generated crappy HTML (I didn't
> > know it at the time, because I was not looking at what HTML was being generated
> > by FP, but my mentor *was*. Hand-editing was needed most times, and sometimes
> > the HTML/Javascript would not parse back into the FP WYSIWYG environment(!).
> >
> > Game over.
> >
> > Without the knowledge of HTML, I would not be able to get things working, nor
> > would I be able to continue a project 'outside' of the 'tool'. Those web dev
> > pro's that knew only how to use FP, spent most of their time on the phone with
> > M$ T/Support when the FP tool failed, as they never bothered to learn HTML (took
> > too much time). Ditto the same lesson for tools such as Visual Cafe for Java
> > (learn to develop Java code first!).
> >
> > I've noticed with Red Hat's new printer configuration tool.. a note not to alter
> > the printcap file manually. Shades of GUI-based tool mindset again. Wonder how
> > long until the attitude (from RH) will be 'why are you manually configuring you
> > system?' or 'Why do you want to understand what our GUI-tool is doing?" (heard
> > that already). Got tired of hearing this from M$, so I left that development
> > platform.
> >
> > So, while Wizards (Internet Configurer) and tools (such as RPM) save time and
> > effort for corporations and pro's, I've learned to never lose site of
> > understanding what's happening underneath the toolset, as well as the ability to
> > do the same task manually.
> >
> > What's good for a corporation/industry is not necessarily good for a career or a
> > hi-tech professional, yes? Distro like Debian may take longer to
> > install/configure, etc. (still have apt-get :-) ) but the knowledge of how to go
> > about doing things at a 'lower-level' can be invaluable, when the high-level
> > tools can't/won't get the job done.
> >
> > </endrant>
> >
> > HTH
> >
> > JimI.
> >
> >
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