OT: Apple service [was [clue-tech] Qwest DSL download speed reduced]

[Nate Duehr]

Kevin Cullis wrote:
>
> On May 27, 2006, at 12:03 PM, Nate Duehr wrote:
>
>> David L. Anselmi wrote:
>>> Nate Duehr wrote:
>>> [...]
>>>> "Consumers" aren't as dumb as most corporate support systems make 
>>>> them out to be.  My recent example of Apple requiring an 
>>>> appointment at the so-called "Genius Bar" to tell me my 4 day old 
>>>> laptop wouldn't even POWER ON [ http://www.natetech.com/?p=203 ] is 
>>>> a good example of corporate customer "service" policy gone insane.
>>>
>
> You know Nate, for every "one" bad service, there are 10 behind you 
> that talk about how great things are. There are some out there that 
> you could give them things for free and they'd still complain. Then 
> there are the "abused" computer users that think EVERY incident is 
> going to be abusive.
>
>>> I find it tempting (being in the market for a laptop) to look at the 
>>> MacBook.  But I won't because I won't run Mac OS on it and I can't 
>>> bear the thought of paying for proprietary software and then 
>>> throwing it away (maybe I can get one without OS?)  I wonder how 
>>> well the hardware works with Linux?
>> As mentioned above, I have no problem with the software tax.  I even 
>> loaded a copy of WinXP on it with Apple Bootcamp.  Sometimes you just 
>> need all your tools... whatever they are.
>
> A man after my own style, whatever tools work the best whether FOSS or 
> not.

Heh... sometimes you just need a bigger hammer.  :-)  Tim Taylor computing?
>> I agonized for a week over giving Apple my money (again) because I 
>> truly despise organizational "stuff" that causes poor customer 
>> service... I fight that tooth and nail, even at my job, trying to 
>> make sure my customers get the best service I can give them, even if 
>> the "rules" say we're not supposed to do something a certain way.  Of 
>> course, you have to pick and choose your battles in that arena 
>> carefully and with tact.
>>
>> We'll see how it goes.  Had the new MacBook less than 24 hours and 
>> it's already running two OS's... soon more.  ;-)  Linux is next in line.
>
> Nate, and I agonized over whether I should respond to your experience 
> because I work for Apple here in town, but in the end I'll try and do 
> the right thing here either in explanation or for future reference in 
> both for customer's and Apple's guidance. And while you may "despise 
> organizational stuff that results in poor customer service" you'd be 
> surprised my side of the stories. While your DOA computer experience 
> is rare, it is not unusual (I once sold 10 HP computers of one model 
> in a row that were ALL DOA).
>
> First, I read your post on your blog and I don't blame you for being 
> upset/angry/determined/etc for a laptop that "just DOESN'T work." As 
> would anyone would be spending their hard earned money. And I also 
> don't blame you for trying to resolve your issue in a stern manner 
> with whoever you were working with. But on the other hand Apple thinks 
> and does things differently, hence the appointments to see the genius 
> bar technicians. Once most of our customers see how this works they 
> like it much more than other places BECAUSE we devote exclusive FREE 
> time to troubleshoot their problems, including giving them FREE 
> training to boot! The purpose for seeing the Genius bar is to have the 
> technician confirm that it was defective, not to say what you were 
> experiencing was wrong and we weren't going to take care a defective 
> computer. Most people blame Apple for things THEY do and seeing the 
> Genius bar is only to confirm the problem, and not to exchange known 
> good products for another good product, this costs us and the customer 
> time and money because they may not know how to use it correctly.
I think I "get it" more than I did when I was mad... heh.  But still -- 
I thought needing a "Genius" to tell me (or anyone else) that it 
wouldn't even power up was a bit much.  The sales guy really could have 
taken care of that.  (And I think he could have if POLICY hadn't allowed 
him to... that's where I get the "stuck in my craw" feeling about 
this... if the sales guy was smart enough to pronounce the machine DOA, 
the whole thing would have been handled in about 5 minutes... in and 
out... all done.) 

I really don't think he was as dumb as store policy demanded him to be.  :-)

(Actually, he tried to be "empathetic" by telling me that he once bought 
a Mac Mini that was DOA directly out of the box when he got it home.  He 
got points for trying to relate, but that's probably not a story a sales 
person should tell.  Ha ha... he was a bit green, methinks.)

>
> However, you are a unique individual in that you are more experienced 
> and knowledgeable than most of Apple's customers that walk in the 
> door. I'm the only one that is TRI-OS (Linux, Mac, and Windows). Most 
> of the other Mac specialists are creative types, not UNIX grey beards 
> (although I did have one individual that came in that "does PERL" 
> scripting and I mentioned that I thought we had PERL, Python, and, I 
> think, Ruby on Rails installed and his 9 year old son stated "nope, 
> it's not installed" as he was typing in Terminal). In fact, the more 
> geeky they are, the more apt they are to play "stump the Mac 
> Specialist" and then treat them like dogs for not knowing all 23,000 
> products and all of the peculiarities of each problem. But wait, 
> there's more:
Wow.  I keep forgetting you guys are dealing with "the public".  I 
really haven't done that in years... perhaps I need a little resetting 
of my expectations, but I think I did finally come around to that... 
Apple Stores are catering to teenagers with cellphones buying new iPods 
-- as an extreme example -- and then someone trying to get a computer 
walks in and has a billion questions about low-level OS stuff.  Must be 
maddening, actually.
>
> 1. The customer that says "my daughter's iPod is broken, are you 
> seeing more defective iPods because if you are you've got a bad 
> product" not knowing that while selling more iPods does see and 
> increase in the number of iPods that are defective, it's still the 
> same percentage.
LOL.
> 2. The customer that complains that wants to exchange a product 
> because "it is defective" and bitterly complains of "poor customer 
> service" when we want to confirm it's defective and not operator error 
> (as is most of the cases with abused Windows users). In this case it 
> was operator error and I tried to make sure I was going to have a 
> better experience than he had previously, but he refused to listen to 
> what I was trying to help him with.
Yeah, true.  Understand. 
> 3. The Genius Bar deals with hundreds (yes, hundreds) of customers a 
> day and you try and remember what you did with a customer's computer 
> two weeks ago.
Heh, no ticket system?  :-)  Perhaps RT (http://www.bestpractical.com) 
would run on a store Mac in the back room -- think it should work, it's 
all Perl.  (GRIN)
> 4. Or the customer that slams a computer at the Genius Bar in front of 
> 15 people waiting for their appointment and he wants service NOW!!! Do 
> I favor this disgruntled customer and take care of the issue, yet 
> could possibly anger 15 more customers?
Yeah, understood.  There were two "Geniuses" and one person at the bar 
when I came in.  It was just late enough in the day on a Sunday that no 
one in the Aspen Grove store was going to do any more work that day, was 
the way it felt... on my side of things, I'd just gotten off an airplane 
at DIA and rushed there trying to beat the 6PM closing time.  I walked 
in at 5:30PM on the dot... it was the best I could do.  If I would have 
had ANY idea I needed an appointment (no where in ANY documentation that 
came with the machine was there any mention of that policy) I'd have 
made one before I left Indianapolis that day.
> 5. Or the customer that yells in front of a crowd of eager Mac 
> switchers  "you can't say that, that's illegal" about using a 
> Student/Teach Edition of MS Office for home when their mother had not 
> explained if she would be qualified or not, i.e. I usually give a one 
> short sentence and let them decide if they are qualified or not for 
> the full or S/T edition.
Ha!  Wow... crazy.
> Just as you, I try and to live by the golden rule when it comes to 
> customer service, "Do unto others as you would have them do to you." I 
> know you may have had a bad experience with what Apple is trying to 
> do, but yours is few and far between.
That's good to hear...
> So, since I know you via CLUE's list, contact me directly and I'll 
> work things out for you BECAUSE I know your level of experience and 
> can at least make it more pleasant for you and others in the future. 
> But whatever you, please don't expect what I received this week. An 
> agent for a major league player called and wanted us to give a free 
> MacBook Pro to them for doing an autograph signing at our store as 
> "customer service." Yea, right ;-)
I'm good... got the new one last night (heck I even sprung for an 
upgrade - the black one was just far too tempting... since I was going 
back on my "I'll never do business with THEM again" crazy comments of 
earlier in the week with friends, having a black one this time seemed 
more appropriate anyway -- hah.   Change the hostname to "blacksheep" 
perhaps?  :-)
>
> HTH
>
> Kevin
>
> P.S. A LOT of Linux users I know are buying Macs for the very reason 
> you stated above:
>
>> I see the Mac right now as the "platform that will do it all"... 
>> Free, Non-Free, all of it.
Yeah.  I love laptops (someone else mentioned that they dislike them - I 
understand.  But my desktop machines sit idle most of the time.  I use a 
laptop at work, had a good solid eMachines laptop at home up until now, 
and now "blacksheep".  ;-)

Final note for you since you mentioned you were the listed "biz" 
consultant person at the Apple place you work at... Apple HAS to get 
AppleCare up to the quality level of the Dell CompleteCare (e.g. They'll 
come to you) or have insanely fast turnaround times on depot shipments 
(cross-shipments, etc...) for machine replacement/repair before any IT 
Department will buy them in any serious quantity.  The price point is 
there now with the MacBook... you can't beat this machine 
dollar-for-dollar with a Dell... but at $300 or less a machine for 
"we'll bring the parts to your house or office and fix it while you wait 
even if you're a moron and  dropped it" -- that's tough to catch up with.

Two more things: 

In my private note: I mentioned the 6PM store hours.  I just went and 
looked and oops... that's only on Sunday -- makes sense.  Something got 
it in my head that was every day, but I knew there was no way...

THANK YOU is the other one.  I know it's a serious pain to figure out 
nowadays if you can say something in a social setting online about your 
employer.  I am not sure if you were one of my customers and you were 
unhappy if I'd even be allowed to say anything in a public forum other 
than, "Call me at 800-xxx-xxxx."  ;-) 

Nate