[clue] Crawford has left us in the lurch ? I hope not

Mon Feb 7 14:51:01 MST 2011

This is Art Reisman

I am the founder of APconnections  (NetEqualizer) and would be willing to donate $500 toward renting space if that helps, I don't have much time to help in any way.

please contact me at art at apconnections.net

art

--- On Mon, 2/7/11, YES NOPE9 <yes at nope9.com> wrote:

> From: YES NOPE9 <yes at nope9.com>
> Subject: Re: [clue] Crawford has left us in the lurch ? I hope not
> To: "CLUE's mailing list" <clue at cluedenver.org>
> Date: Monday, February 7, 2011, 11:55 AM
> > 
> > On Feb 7, 2011, at 11:17 AM, Crawford Rainwater
> wrote:
> > 
> > "David L. Anselmi" <anselmi at anselmi.us>
> wrote:
> >>> YES NOPE9 wrote:
> >>> I have put a lot of stuff into the Drupal 7
> sandbox.... please don't erase it without warning....
> >>> I would like to recover my work before the
> site is shut down.  I just went to the Drupal 7
> >>> sandbox and my stuff is still there. 
> Please don't erase it for 3 days so I can copy it and save
> >>> it.
> >> 
> >> Crawford told me that the "new" site would be
> moved to a Linux ETC server.  The two "sandbox sites" 
> >> will remain where they are.  Since I haven't
> been working on Drupal I'm not sure what that means but 
> >> now you know what I know.
> 
> Are the sandbox sites and the production site on a server
> rented by CLUE ?  If so, Why would anyone have the
> right to remove content and/or shut the sites down ? 
> If not..... see below.
> >> 
> > 
> > That is correct.  The main site that I was
> working on to replace the CLUE web site with a Drupal based
> one is now running in offline mode on one of Linux ETC's
> servers.  The two "sandbox" sites for Drupal 6 and
> Drupal 7 are still on the CLUE VPSLink system.  So work
> done there is still there and untouched by me.  In
> fact, short of installation and configuration of both
> sandboxes, I have not really looked at them save the logs to
> see who has and has not contributed to them after they were
> requested.  
> I have put quite a bit on the Drupal 7 sandbox.  Who
> "owns" the Drupal 7 sandbox.  I hope it is CLUE. 
> If not, then who ?  I can probably save copies of my
> work ( on Tuesday )  I would rather not bother if
> Drupal 7 is "safe".
> > 
> >>> I have no idea why Crawford is pulling the
> plug.
> >> 
> >> A lot of what Crawford has been doing (like the
> conferencing sites) costs money.  I'm not sure what 
> >> motivated him to spend his money on those things
> but I'm not going to call it "pulling the plug" 
> >> when his motivation ends.
> 
> I have lost a small amount of effort.... I installed some
> content on the Drupal 6 production system.  Who owns
> the CLUE website "data image".  I would argue that you
> can't give CLUE something and then take it back.  Once
> it is CLUE's , it is always the property of CLUE.
> >> 
> > 
> > I gave David A. and Dennis a quick run down of what
> the dollar costs would have been IF Linux ETC were to bill a
> client for the "donated services" provided to CLUE. 
> For most, putting such into perspective sometimes help
> clarify a few items.  Did I personally put any actual
> dollars of my own or Linux ETC into CLUE?  Probably at
> one point or another (I am thinking for the VPSLink system
> perhaps, but I could be wrong) but then again trying to
> recall all the various items that I have contributed back
> into CLUE goes back quite bit as well.  As a business
> owner and individual, I have to re-evaluate what is a good
> return of investment of time and service.  I am still
> pondering this in regards to CLUE and perhaps will be for
> some time.  But that is my own perspective and call on
> such.
> A volunteer can figure out what the cost of his effort is (
> and was ) but the volunteer should not retroactively bill
> CLUE for volunteer services rendered.  If volunteers
> did this, it would quickly become absurd.  I could come
> up with some claims ( that I could substatiate ) and it
> would be ridiculous if I did .
> > 
> > As for "pulling the plug" that is for everyone's own
> interpretation.  I prefer to see it that a donated
> service or time is that.  Such donated services and/or
> time can also cease when "the gift horse is kicked in the
> mouth" as the phrase goes.  Thus, I removed what Linux
> ETC and/or I have donated recently to CLUE accordingly
> because of this perception.
> 
> You can quit donating.... you can stop... ethically you
> can't retroactively take back stuff that is CLUE's
> property.  Especially if you are removing it from a
> CLUE server.
> > 
> >> I haven't thought about the complete list of
> things Crawford is handing off but my first impression 
> >> is that the most important can be picked up by
> others.  Maybe we'll find a new perspective on what's 
> >> important and what we can do without.
> >> 
> > 
> > In regards to the CLUE Drupal web site since there
> were folks apparently not satisfied with the donated time on
> my behalf, there are two sandboxes to implement whatever may
> be satisfying from his/her own perspective.  As I noted
> to Dennis and David A. off list I spent roughly 40+ hours on
> this migration that was on "donated time".  When it was
> ready to go, I kept receiving "I want...", "I expect...",
> and/or "I do not want to use it now..." from the very folks
> that wanted such in place, but apparently did not wish to
> take the initiative to put something together on their own
> time.  Yes, I stepped up to the call.
> Please name these individuals who were "not
> satisfied".  I was satisfied... in fact I was delighted
> to have a Drupal 7 sandbox.
> > 
> > With that said, here is English 101:
> > "want": demand the presence of; have need of; desire:
> feel or have a desire for
> > 
> > What might have been more appropriate verbage in
> proper form and manners:
> > "I would like please"
> > 
> > Granted, emails do not contain "tone" so I have to go
> with what I read and thus perceived from the "I want..."
> folks.  A simple "thanks" instead might have gone a
> long(er) way, and avoided the perception I received of being
> "leeched" quite a bit.  David A.'s email reflected upon
> this some as well.  To those who did extend those
> "thanks", you individually are quite welcome.  
> I think you have made this "leech" thing up.  Not
> maliciously I am sure..... I am equally sure that everyone
> was benefiting from your efforts and NOW they are NOT. 
> Especially if you intend to hold back what has already been
> done.
> > 
> > That said and as David A. has noted, perhaps others
> can "step up" and continue for as long as David A. has (I
> believe David A. has a longer tenure with CLUE activities
> and coordinating such than I have actually) and decide what
> is important or not.  
> > 
> > As for myself, I am on sabbatical from CLUE for now.
> 
> I am not on sabbatical and I am happy to step up and learn
> what it takes to support the website.
> gus in denver  99gus
> > 
> > --- Crawford
> > 
> > The Linux ETC Company
> > 10121 Yates Court
> > Westminster, CO 80031 USA
> > voice:  +1.303.604.2550
> > web:    http://www.linux-etc.com
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> > 
> > 
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