[clue] [TALK] Ultimate home for the CLUE Website

Wed Jun 8 14:53:59 MDT 2011

> 
> On Jun 8, 2011, at 1:04 PM, Raymond DeRoo wrote:
> 
> Gus--
> 
> Dan's comments better state what I was driving at, but to address your comments:
> 
>> This effort is not taxing CLUE members one thin dime.  It is not draining the treasury.  The people working on it are doing so because they want to.
> 
> I'm not saying that anyone is charing. What I am saying is that drupal 7 performance as has been wittness by those taking the time to test, poke around, look for information is abysmal. Now, I know there are some bright people as CLUE members, but that doesn't mean they are good at tuning Drupal, truthfully I don't know. But what I *can* say is that every drupal test thus far has been a failure. So to get drupal running well it would seem that we need someone who is well experienced in drupal performance turning, and I feel that the time should be donated. If the person is not willing to donate the time ( their choice ) then CLUE should find a different solution which performs well and can be maintained by the people currently doing the work, without being a large resource drain for them. 
> 
>>  The old website performs so much more poorly than the Drupal test site.... it is laughable,
> 
> Back up the statement. Real number, repeatedly tests. That is the one thing I have provided time and again. I don't say "It's slow." I provide details of exactly how slow, and how that testing was done. Why? So any other member can perform their own test and tell me where I went wrong in my testing methodology... or confirm that they too are seeing similar results to my own. So far no one has posted concrete results, least of all you. From the tests run below, I can quanvtitavtily state the you are wrong. The old site performs *MUCH* better than the new one. So I would suggest instead of laughing, you actually do some testing. The results might surprise  you.

I am sorry Raymond..... I ( gus ) did not do a good job of making myself clear.  What I meant was that the old site does not supply features that I want .... thus it's performance in those areas is zero.  I was trying to be too cute.
> 
> [20:20:29 rderoo at rotterdam ~]$ ab -n 10 -c 10 -t 10 http://www.cluedenver.org/
> ...
> Percentage of the requests served within a certain time (ms)
>   50%    255
>   66%    294
>   75%    306
>   80%    312
>   90%    326
>   95%    335
>   98%    345
>   99%    363
>  100%    421 (longest request)
> 
> [12:20:48 rderoo at arvada ~]$ ab -n 10 -c 10 -t 10 http://www.cluedenver.org/
> ...
> Percentage of the requests served within a certain time (ms)
>   50%    225
>   66%    228
>   75%    231
>   80%    232
>   90%    239
>   95%    247
>   98%    273
>   99%    301
>  100%    339 (longest request)
> 
> 
>> The current site has no forums,
> 
> From the few who have posted to this list about forums, it would seem that they are not desired.  You have spoken often about forums, but only you. If you want a forum upon which you may talk with yourself, please feel free to set up whatever you like. But near as I can tell, this is not a club-wide desire. 
> 
>> no books ,
> 
> I have no idea what you mean by this.
> 
>> no calendar, ...........
> 
> http://www.cluedenver.org/display.php?node=calendar_2011 with yet further calendars linked on that page.
> 
> 
>>  I am not interested in giving those features up.
> 
> *You* are not, please provide a general consensus that is what is desired by the membership at large and I will support you whole heartedly. But www.cluedenver.org is not your personal playground, it is a tool to be used by current and potential members. As such it needs to be a tool which functions well to meet the needs of both groups. The current site does exactly that, the drupal test site is a failure for both.
> 
>> Raymond.... instead of sniping at the effort going on .... why don't you come up with a superior ( and working ) alternative ?
> 
> Simply put, because I feel the current site meets CLUE's needs. But to your point, I have offered a few times to review the configure of MySQL and memcached, along with providing the commands  necessary to issue to collect those data points. As of this writing, I have received nothing. Further, I have twice rewritten the MySQL interface for drupal, once for drupal 5.2 and again for  7.0. I do drupal performance consulting and have optimized drupal for the AMM micro stack, and am presently trying to talk a client out of having me write a drupal/redis interface.
>  
>>  I would be excited to test it.  If you want to stick with the current , static site...... you got your wish ..... for now............. the static site keeps chugging ( boringly ) along.
> 
> If you feel the static site is boring, then do liven it up! Personally I have no design skills to speak up, that's why I stick to the the backend of things. Do I like the look and feel of the current CLUE website? Not really, but other than offer up some money, to be matched by others, to have a professional do a redesign, there is nothing more I can do. But I also don't complain about the current website either.
> 
> So what's my point? Give up on drupal. The club either does not have people skilled enough in drupal to make it work well; or the members who do have the skill do not have the bandwidth to help in the fashion that is needed. You had your test, we tried it a few times, it failed, then it failed, and finally it has failed again. Move on.
> 
> For those of you who feel I'm just drupal bashing, I'm not. I'm actually very thankful for drupal as it provided me with nice source of side incoming. But I also do not feel that it is the right tool for all situations. I feel for CLUE, it is not the right solution. That being said, if CLUE wishes to continue down the drupal path, I am still willing to offer help on the data side. I really do not have an interest in full stack tuning. And no, it's a matter of "getting paid"; rather it's simply the fact I don't enjoy doing it.
> 
> One a side note, I hope to be in Denver mid-July. So perhaps I can even make the July 12th meeting. David, call that woman of yours and let's find a Chipolte. :)
> 
> .r
> 
> On Jun 8, 2011, at 8:03 PM, Dan Kulinski wrote:
> 
>> I think Raymond's point was more along the lines of, do we have the time to invest and the necessary skills involved to make this a workable solution.  I don't think he was criticizing the effort at all but rather trying to spur conversation on the worth of the features a full CMS brings to the organization.  
>> 
>> So, what are the features Drupal brings and what are the value of those features?  I am not asking you to defend the choice of Drupal, but I am genuinely interested in the logic that spurred the change and what benefits members will experience.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> clue mailing list: clue at cluedenver.org
> For information, account preferences, or to unsubscribe see:
> http://cluedenver.org/mailman/listinfo/clue
> 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://cluedenver.org/pipermail/clue/attachments/20110608/04c1b91d/attachment.html