[clue] What do you run on your Pi?
Whiting, Gary
Gary.Whiting at echostar.com
Thu Aug 29 12:18:50 MDT 2013
My personal favorite...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2YtARzJTys
___________________________________________
Gary Whiting | IT Systems Manager, UNIX
EchoStar Information Technology
100 Inverness Terrace East | Englewood, CO 80112
Office: 303-706-5607
UNIX Team Oncall: 303-706-5471
___________________________________________
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Today's Topics:
1. Upcoming talks. (David L. Anselmi)
2. What do you run on your Pi? (David L. Anselmi)
3. imap servers. (David L. Anselmi)
4. Re: What do you run on your Pi? (Dennis J Perkins)
5. Re: imap servers. (Charles Burton)
6. Re: imap servers. (Chris Hirsch)
7. Re: What do you run on your Pi? (Michael J. Hammel)
8. Re: imap servers. (Aaron D. Johnson)
9. SUSE event 9/24 in Denver. (David L. Anselmi)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2013 13:34:50 -0600
From: "David L. Anselmi" <anselmi at anselmi.us>
Subject: [clue] Upcoming talks.
To: CLUE <clue at cluedenver.org>
Message-ID: <521E50DA.6010009 at anselmi.us>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
It's been a quiet summer thanks to the McAfee move (and my own) in July and my 5 weeks in a row on the road. But we're getting settled, McAfee has space for us again, I'm starting to fiddle with my Pi mail server, and we have some talks scheduled.
Sept 10th: Denis Perkins on DokuWiki
I need a new wiki so I might try this one. It's PHP :-( but I'm curious how it manages versioning and what markup it uses. I'd like to convert my existing wiki and those seem like important points.
Oct 8th: Art Reisman on commercial products with Linux. Art gave a great talk years ago on the Linux Bandwidth Arbitrator, which has become the NETEqualizer product. Mark your calendar now, you don't want to miss this one.
Nov 12th: I've had a request for more talks on Raspberry Pi. I can talk about running basic services (web, mail, print) and/or building your own image with debootstrap (I learned some cool tricks doing that). Or you can talk about ... Or you can ask for someone to cover a topic and we'll see who we can scare up. I hear there's some interest in hardware mods.
I'd like to know more about where Freedombox is. If you haven't heard of it we could screen one of the talks available on line.
Dave
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2013 18:35:53 -0600
From: "David L. Anselmi" <anselmi at anselmi.us>
Subject: [clue] What do you run on your Pi?
To: CLUE <clue at cluedenver.org>
Message-ID: <521E9769.8030101 at anselmi.us>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
What distros are you using on your Pi hardware?
I run Debian, so naturally I use Raspbian on a Pi.
I've figured out how to debootstrap an image so I don't need the Raspbian images as I like to start with a bare system and dress it up how I like.
There was a talk recently that I thought was interesting:
http://ftp.acc.umu.se/pub/debian-meetings/2013/debconf13/high/1021_ARM_BOF.ogv
My thoughts:
The distros settled on ARMv7 and then RPi came out and sold millions of units running ARMv6. That shouldn't be embarrassing or inconvenient, it should be a chance to figure out how to handle the next time more easily. (Of course the issues are very abstract to me so apologies if I'm naive.)
I'm encouraged that Raspbian is doing a good job and it doesn't seem too big an issue that they aren't Debian. It's fine if they're a port or pure blend or just Not Debian(TM). I'm curious what other distros are doing with the Pi.
If ARMv6 became supported by Debian it would be an official installer for the Pi. It isn't obvious to me how that works since you have to boot off the media you're installing to. (A really small image doing PXE boot and/or net install doesn't seem sufficient. But I guess a boot image on SD with the install going to a USB drive might be reasonable.)
I don't know that I care about an official installer since SD cards are so easy to move between machines and you can create images on any architecture. Seems to me that most people have the skills to build their own image or are willing to run images built by someone else. But I don't know how hard it is to build a complex image and maybe Raspbian isn't packaging a kernel at all.
I'd like to see the Pi become more capable over time and for it and the distros to become more aligned. It would be really cool if the Freedombox reference hardware cost $35 instead of $100.
Dave
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2013 19:48:44 -0600
From: "David L. Anselmi" <anselmi at anselmi.us>
Subject: [clue] imap servers.
To: CLUE <clue at cluedenver.org>
Message-ID: <521EA87C.50602 at anselmi.us>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Anyone have a particular imap sever you like?
It's been rather quiet on the list lately. Did everyone leave or is it just me? :-)
Dave
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2013 20:43:07 -0600
From: Dennis J Perkins <dennisjperkins at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [clue] What do you run on your Pi?
To: CLUE's mailing list <clue at cluedenver.org>
Message-ID: <3069068.RNsVsFhkk3 at phred>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
On Wednesday, August 28, 2013 06:35:53 PM David L. Anselmi wrote:
> What distros are you using on your Pi hardware?
>
> I run Debian, so naturally I use Raspbian on a Pi.
>
> I've figured out how to debootstrap an image so I don't need the
> Raspbian images as I like to start with a bare system and dress it up how I like.
>
> There was a talk recently that I thought was interesting:
> http://ftp.acc.umu.se/pub/debian-meetings/2013/debconf13/high/1021_ARM
> _BOF.o
> gv
>
> My thoughts:
>
> The distros settled on ARMv7 and then RPi came out and sold millions
> of units running ARMv6. That shouldn't be embarrassing or
> inconvenient, it should be a chance to figure out how to handle the next time more easily.
> (Of course the issues are very abstract to me so apologies if I'm
> naive.)
>
> I'm encouraged that Raspbian is doing a good job and it doesn't seem
> too big an issue that they aren't Debian. It's fine if they're a port
> or pure blend or just Not Debian(TM). I'm curious what other distros
> are doing with the Pi.
>
> If ARMv6 became supported by Debian it would be an official installer
> for the Pi. It isn't obvious to me how that works since you have to
> boot off the media you're installing to. (A really small image doing
> PXE boot and/or net install doesn't seem sufficient. But I guess a
> boot image on SD with the install going to a USB drive might be
> reasonable.)
>
> I don't know that I care about an official installer since SD cards
> are so easy to move between machines and you can create images on any
> architecture. Seems to me that most people have the skills to build
> their own image or are willing to run images built by someone else.
> But I don't know how hard it is to build a complex image and maybe
> Raspbian isn't packaging a kernel at all.
>
> I'd like to see the Pi become more capable over time and for it and
> the distros to become more aligned. It would be really cool if the
> Freedombox reference hardware cost $35 instead of $100.
>
> Dave
> _______________________________________________
> clue mailing list: clue at cluedenver.org For information, account
> preferences, or to unsubscribe see:
> http://cluedenver.org/mailman/listinfo/clue
I put Arch Linux on mine. I'm planning on putting DokuWiki on it.
They're supposedly working on a successor to the Raspberry Pi. Considering their goals, I'm not sure what they might release. However, it seems to have inspired others to develop their own boards. Those might be more interesting.
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2013 20:53:31 -0600
From: Charles Burton <charles.d.burton at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [clue] imap servers.
To: "CLUE's mailing list" <clue at cluedenver.org>
Message-ID:
<CALQc+aN5sn6q8zZ6GrusPnbEJBpZUdwqph=S8+VZsEQ2B-eALw at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
It's a other just you :-) I just don't really deal with email. I am interested in the rpi discussion. I have mine controlling the gpio from node.js right now with a json control structure. I might be able to speak to it a bit, but I have to make sure I can be there.
On Aug 28, 2013 7:48 PM, "David L. Anselmi" <anselmi at anselmi.us> wrote:
> Anyone have a particular imap sever you like?
>
> It's been rather quiet on the list lately. Did everyone leave or is
> it just me? :-)
>
> Dave
> _______________________________________________
> clue mailing list: clue at cluedenver.org For information, account
> preferences, or to unsubscribe see:
> http://cluedenver.org/mailman/listinfo/clue
>
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Message: 6
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2013 21:35:46 -0600
From: Chris Hirsch <chris at base2technology.com>
Subject: Re: [clue] imap servers.
To: clue at cluedenver.org
Message-ID: <521EC192.8080507 at base2technology.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
On 8/28/13 7:48 PM, David L. Anselmi wrote:
> Anyone have a particular imap sever you like?
>
> It's been rather quiet on the list lately. Did everyone leave or is
> it just me? :-)
>
> Dave
> _______________________________________________
> clue mailing list: clue at cluedenver.org For information, account
> preferences, or to unsubscribe see:
> http://cluedenver.org/mailman/listinfo/clue
I don't know if I can say I like or dislike it but I've been using Courier IMAP/POP for years now. It's served me well and scales well.
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2013 21:40:29 -0600
From: "Michael J. Hammel" <mjhammel at graphics-muse.org>
Subject: Re: [clue] What do you run on your Pi?
To: clue at cluedenver.org
Message-ID: <1377747629.21019.139.camel at kepler.gfxmuse.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
On Wed, 2013-08-28 at 18:35 -0600, David L. Anselmi wrote:
> What distros are you using on your Pi hardware?
PiBox:
http://www.graphics-muse.org/wiki/pmwiki.php?n=RaspberryPi.RaspberryPi
PiBox is a build system but it's also a distribution. It will be called
the PiBox Media Server, providing a wireless access point serving video
files over NFS/CIFS and video files and webcam over RTSP for travel
trailers. My goal is to have the media in the trailer, then sit outside
my R-Pod, inside our R-Dome, and play videos with a DLP projector on the
side of the trailer. The modern day version of the drive-in movie. I
also plan to integrate a variety of sensors meaningful to people with
travel trailers (specifically R-Pods, but others as well).
Right now the wireless access point is working, configurable with a
custom network configuration utility. I also can stream a webcam in
near realtime (well, .5 second delay) through crtmpserver and the Monkey
web server to a JWPlayer. I haven't got HTML5 working yet but that is
on the todo list. Right now it's just FLV (re: Flash).
I have also played with a few of XBMC-oriented distros. I have packaged
XBMC for PiBox but haven't had a chance to test it completely. I'll get
to the player side of PiBox after I get the server side working
completely.
> I've figured out how to debootstrap an image so I don't need the Raspbian images as I like to start
> with a bare system and dress it up how I like.
Because of the way that flash memory (SD cards) work, ever time a daemon
deletes something it has to delete a whole sector and write back what
its keeping. So using an off-the-shelf distribution that has not been
optimized to limit disk I/O to the SD card puts extra weight on the CPU,
memory and the SD card (which has a limited lifepsan, btw). Remember
that a Pi has very limited memory compared to a typical desktop or
laptop. The idea is to tailor the distro to squeeze out the best
performance for specific purposes. Which is why a general purpose
desktop based on the Pi seems a bit silly when run from an SD card
(though running it off an external drive would be okay, if a little
slow).
> The distros settled on ARMv7 and then RPi came out and sold millions of units running ARMv6. That
> shouldn't be embarrassing or inconvenient, it should be a chance to figure out how to handle the
> next time more easily. (Of course the issues are very abstract to me so apologies if I'm naive.)
Linaro is setup to deal with this. The distros can make use of Linaro
releases to support specific ARM versions. Linaro provides gcc,
binutils and associated utility patches and upstream-pushes to support
the hardware. I believe Raspbian does this. I think there is an Ubuntu
version that does too (see Robert Nelson's releases).
PiBox uses Crosstool-NG to build a cross toolchain that utilizes Linaro
updates. It also uses a kernel that is from a Raspberry Pi git repo.
> I'm encouraged that Raspbian is doing a good job and it doesn't seem too big an issue that they
> aren't Debian. It's fine if they're a port or pure blend or just Not Debian(TM). I'm curious what
> other distros are doing with the Pi.
Many are trying to be general purpose, which seems a little silly to me
but if you're trying to encourage new ideas it's not a bad idea. Some
are special purpose (like PiBox) such as the XBMC-oriented distros.
> If ARMv6 became supported by Debian it would be an official installer for the Pi. It isn't obvious
> to me how that works since you have to boot off the media you're installing to. (A really small
> image doing PXE boot and/or net install doesn't seem sufficient. But I guess a boot image on SD
> with the install going to a USB drive might be reasonable.)
There doesn't need to be an install if the distro is specific to the
Raspberry Pi. An common base image could be placed on the sd card and
upon first login you could be prompted to choose the packages you want.
This would even work if you had an external USB hard drive. The Pi
could be configured to boot the base image off the SD card and pivot to
the USB drive if its available, or stick with the base image if not.
I think the typical install process of distros is a leftover of how PCs
were designed (and used). Small devices like Pi will require a
different view on the problem.
> I don't know that I care about an official installer since SD cards are so easy to move between
> machines and you can create images on any architecture. Seems to me that most people have the
> skills to build their own image or are willing to run images built by someone else. But I don't
> know how hard it is to build a complex image and maybe Raspbian isn't packaging a kernel at all.
It's not really all that hard, but it takes a little while to understand
what "complex" really means. First you need a cross toolchain. You can
get that ready made or build your own (which is one of the harder things
to get right). You can then build Busybox and have a simple system.
You can then use Buildroot to build something more complex. Finally,
once you have a staging tree from Buildroot, you can begin cross
compiling your own tools and packaging them (such as with opkg). Once
you have packaged software you just need something akin to an initial
ramdisk smart enough to know how to setup the install partition to
accept the packages.
>From a high level it's not that hard. The toolchain is the key. It's
what determines if you'll be able to make use of all the hardware
goodness or just spin on the CPU.
--
Michael J. Hammel
mjhammel at graphics-muse.org / http://www.graphics-muse.org
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Reintarnation: Coming back to life as a hillbilly.
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2013 21:56:32 -0600
From: "Aaron D. Johnson" <adj at fnord.greeley.co.us>
Subject: Re: [clue] imap servers.
To: CLUE's mailing list <clue at cluedenver.org>
Message-ID: <20130829035632.AC6D9800F1 at sacredchao.fnord.greeley.co.us>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
David L. Anselmi writes:
> Anyone have a particular imap sever you like?
>
> It's been rather quiet on the list lately. Did everyone leave or is
> it just me? :-)
I'm got dovecot in use at home. It works. Supports Maildir and mbox
(and probably a bunch of other) mailbox formats simultaneously. I
can't remember my reason for choosing it initially. It was probably a
combination of supporting IMAPS out of the box and not seeming like it
was written by someone in the qmail crowd.
The only thing I have accessing it right now is squirrelmail. But
that works fine.
I run Debian whenever possible. My experience with Dovecot is that
new major versions (as when upgrading from Debian 5.0 to 6.0 to 7.0)
will likely require tweaking your dovecot config file. A lot. I
spent 90 minutes getting dovecot to work again this weekend after a
Debian 6 to Debian 7 upgrade. The old config file didn't work and the
new config file generated by the conversion tool didn't actually
enable the IMAP server component. It was pretty aggravating. A new
install probably would've been fine.
Hope this helps.
- Aaron
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2013 09:35:08 -0600
From: "David L. Anselmi" <anselmi at anselmi.us>
Subject: [clue] SUSE event 9/24 in Denver.
To: CLUE <clue at cluedenver.org>
Message-ID: <521F6A2C.2050402 at anselmi.us>
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Details available at:
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Dave
------------------------------
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