[CLUE-Talk] Iraq Stuph

[Sean LeBlanc]

On 04-22 13:50, Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier wrote:
> On Tue, 2003-04-22 at 10:25, Randy Arabie wrote:
> 
> *snip*
> > > First, I don't consider my stance "immature" -- as usual, you're dodging
> > > the issue -- that is, that I don't consider Bush's election legitimate
> > > and there are certainly some grounds for dispute.  
> > 
> > I think your stance is immature, only a few degrees better than "I'll take my
> > toys and go home."
> 
> I don't have to. I'm already at home and my toys are all here. 
> 
> I suppose the only way I get to be "mature" in your book is to agree
> with you -- because whenever there's a difference in opinion you're
> quick to call it "whining" or "immature." 
> 
> > The dispute has been settled, that's what the Supreme Court ruling was
> > all about.  If you believe there is still something to dispute, then you
> > don't recognize the Supreme Court's ruling and/or authority.
> 
> I recognize the Supreme Court's authority - I simply believe that they
> called it wrong. It's entirely possible to recognize the authority of an
> institution or office and disagree with the decisions made by that
> authority. I recognize the ruling, but I disagree with it. 
> 
> The Supreme Court also ruled at one time that people could be property.
> Was that dispute "settled" or beyond dispute at that point? I don't
> think so. Even a system as well-designed as ours can have flaws. The
> Supremes do blow it occasionally. The Supremes have also found that
> abortion and the death penalty are legal -- should opponents of those
> things just accept that or should they continue to press on with those
> issues? 

I thought that the Roe v. Wade was more a decision about privacy and didn't
explicity rule about abortion. I could have that wrong; I'm going on memory
and it's been a long day. 
 
> I'd also point out that even the justices on the court were not
> unanimous -- it was five to four in the decision that there was not a
> way that the recount could take place in time. But for one swing vote,
> we might have someone else in the Oval Office. 

I doubt it. Even if that swing vote did happen, I have not seen one single
recount that came up with Gore as the winner of Florida. There were a few
independently conducted recounts, IIRC.
 
<snip>

Also:
While you may not be one of those that are, I have to believe that there is
at least a critical mass of anti-war folks who are so vehement about this
war because the sitting prez is a Republican...and that it's even more
frenzied than usual because they believe he is illegitimate. 

I have to say I was shocked when I read that you don't think he's YOUR
president. I'd have to agree with Randy that this does come off as immature,
and not because you are disagreeing with me...I didn't vote for the guy,
either - I voted Libertarian, but I consider Bush "my" president.

Another point: where were the comments about "weapons of mass distraction"
during Bosnia? Where was it during the cruise missile into Iraq circa the
Lewinsky affair? Someone on here (forget who) said that Iraq and Bosnia were
entirely different situations, and I fail to be convinced of that. 

I cannot help but think that no matter what a Republican president does, it
will be lambasted by some members of the left...take, for example, folks
that think this economy is somehow the fault of the Bush administration -
they complain that they brought us the "Bush economy" (in the face of all
evidence to the contrary - for example, anyone paying attention knows that
the stock market started a slide in early 2000) and THEN turn around and
whine* about proposed boosts to the economy like tax cuts. 

And I think a great deal of the dissent falls into this category: he's a
Republican, so War is Bad (tm).  When it's a Democrat in office, the
anti-war sentiment seems to disappear, even when the circumstances aren't
any different. I realize there are principled folks on the left that will
apply the same standard to both parties, but we don't hear from them very
much when it's a Democrat waging war.

* Yes, sometimes it's just whining. I know others do their share of whining,
too, me included.  

-- 
Sean LeBlanc:seanleblanc at americanisp.net  
http://users.americanisp.net/~seanleblanc/
Get MLAC at: http://sourceforge.net/projects/mlac/