[CLUE-Talk] More lies? [Fwd: Iraq - 9/11 connection]

Tue Dec 16 21:19:46 MST 2003

On 12-15 22:58, Timothy C. Klein wrote:
> * Sean LeBlanc (seanleblanc at americanisp.net) wrote:
> > On 12-15 14:28, Randy Arabie wrote:
> 
> I tried really hard to ignore this flame-bait, but ultimately I could
> not resist.

Alright, you got me. I could hardly resist doing it, either, since I could
have almost scripted some of the reactions before they happened as soon as I
saw that Saddam was captured on Sunday. I wasn't disappointed.

> > Aw, c'mon Randy. Of COURSE it's all lies. This administration is a bunch of
> > liars incapable of telling the truth[0]. Al Franken, Michael Moore and other
> > hecklecrats told me so. 
> >
> > Since you broached the subject....it's been a while since we've had one of
> > those threads on here:
> > 
> > I tell you, I just don't see much but the crumbling of the Democratic party.
> > Good news like Saddam getting captured comes down the pike, and the
> > Democratic spin machine starts revving up to tell us why it's only symbolic,
> > or if we had formed a broader coalition it would have happened sooner, or
> > that the timing of the capture was all staged to benefit Bush.
> 
> That is the nature of political spin. Annoying?  Hell yeah.  A
> Democratic uniqueness?  Not a snowball's chance in hell.   The annoying
> "yeah buts" are matched by equally annoying "Neener Neener Neeners!"
> Intelligent discourse on all sides.

You are correct. I'm sure there was some gloating from the right. Equally
predictable...but they didn't have to go too far to do any spin, if any. The
folks piping up starting Sunday had to, well, do a lot of verbal gymnastics
to spin this into a negative.

> > The only Democratic soundbite I've heard today that sounded somewhat
> > reasonable was one from Lieberman. The Dems better find a lot more like him,
> > I tell ya.  When they aren't telling people they are going to tax them more,
> > some of them are pitching ridiculous conspiracy theories like "Bush knew"
> > about 9/11[1]. The fact that this is their current great hope (until he
> > falls on his sword and Hillary steps in, anyway[2]) is really shameful.
> 
> Nice try.  Dean himself says he does not belief "Bush knew."  Even the
> impeccable NewsMax says that.  His point is that the 9/11 committee
> should not have been hobbled -- in which case these wacky conspiracy
> theories would not have an ability to exist. 

Is it your position that he never said this,then?

http://www.andrewhagen.com/log/00000464.html

http://www.prisonplanet.com/120803deandefends.html

Oh sure, he says he doesn't believe it *himself*. Fair enough, but why is he
even talking about it?

Now we have McDermott floating more theories: 

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2001816098_mcdermott16m.html 

> As for the Democrats being more like Lieberman, you might as well ask
> them to be more like DeLay, while your at it.  You like Lieberman
> because for whatever inane reasons, he talks like a Republican.  The
> Democrats are an *opposition* party, the are supposed to say things the
> average Republican will disagree with.

If you are talking about RINO's (Republican In Name Only), the Republican
Party is riddled with them. Arlen "single bullet theory" Specter, McCain,
Hatch have all done things that conservatives really hate them for.

No, I don't mean a DINO, if that's a phrase, by saying Dems should find more
like Lieberman. I mean a man who manages to cling to some sort of integrity
and doesn't arrive at his opinions by using focus groups. I probably
wouldn't agree with Lieberman on most things, but I can at least respect
him.   

> > It's amusing to watch the hand-wringing in the "conservative" mainstream
> > media, too. I was watching 9news for the weather updates this morning while
> > I got ready. Then the Today show comes on with Katie Couric. I don't think I
> > ever saw her looking so dour and angry as today. Since I had a nearly 2 hour
> > drive in today's snow and ice, I got to hear Laura Ingraham commenting on it
> > as well as playing some clips of Katie.  Anyone else catch Katie?  Oh, and
> > O'Reilly also happened to be on promoting his book. 
> 
> Are you serious?  Katie Couric looked liked she was in a bad mood, and
> this supports ... what the hell was your point here?

What part isn't clear to you? I was just saying I was enjoying the
hand-wringing in the "conservative" media over this. Instead of celebrating
something that's a clear win (even if it's debatable how much), it's all
frowny-face for Katie. If you saw her and heard how she phrased questions,
you'd see what I mean. At first I was thinking it might be because she had
to hoof it down to D.C., but she looked like someone whizzed in her
Wheaties. It looked much more than just being tired.

> > What I found MOST amusing was old Ozone Al himself using the quagmire word
> > just last week, IIRC. Ooops! This just kicked another plank out from their
> > platform - which seems to be built on bad things happening: Not finding OBL,
> > not finding Saddam, having a bad economy, having a quagmire. Well, looks
> > like the Dems had better come up with something positive, because the
> > heckling isn't going to do it.   
> 
> Funny, your so jumpy about this Democratic criticism, but you can't
> resist but to call him Ozone Al, or those that have the audacity to
> disagree 'hecklecrats'. Pardon me if I write you off as a blind partisan.

Well, write me off as what you want. I have plenty of complaints about
Republicans...most recently, it'd be the total fiscal irresponsibility,
IMHO, although when I hear folks like former Grand Kleagle Senator Byrd
talking about fiscal responsibility, I do have to admit that I have to laugh
out loud. I'm partisan, all right, but it's for the Libertarians. :)

And I believe in dissent, but c'mon. Some of this stuff coming out of these
people's mouth is just so simpering and so transparent that it's just
pathetic, really. I mean especially Democrats like John Kerry: I used to
actually semi-respect the guy as at least being level-headed and moderate.
Now he seems to think that since his numbers are in the toilet, the way to
get those numbers up is to move further to the left. Then he drops the
F-bomb. And he rails against being in Iraq, when he voted to give Bush the
authority on it, did he not? 

Then there's the 2000 election. No one likes a sore loser. And if the
Democrats don't stop harping on that, I think they are sunk even without the
other problems. Calling the election stolen, calling Bush the "president
select", talking about the "popular vote"[0] as if that had any meaning in the
current system, etc., is only going to have swing voters vote against the
Dems. 

> Oh, and when you look into your crystal ball, it tells you that Saddam's
> capture has suddenly made everything in Iraq peachy? Cool, I don't have
> one of those. Perhaps my cousin won't have to be deployed to Iraq, now.
> Of course, if he does end up there, I'm going to want my money back, as
> your crystal ball was faulty.

Huh? It's you that put those words in my mouth. I don't think I said things
are peachy, and I don't expect them to be at the drop of a hat. I was just
making the point that the spin overdrive from some of the lefties was so
predictable and also that they seem to be setting themselves up as a party
that can only get their power back if there are failures in domestic and/or
foreign policy.

As for your cousin, I hope he doesn't end up having to go. Are you telling
me that you don't think capturing Saddam just *might* influence things
towards him not going?

> And your Hillary jab I assume is equally valid for Beauprez, too then,
> right? He went to Iraq. I even got the shiny leaflet in the mail from
> him, trumpeting all the good things he saw, turning his trip into
> nothing but a nice little PR stunt for the voters at home.

What jab? That's she's going to run? I honestly think she's going to run.
That's no jab.  Her and Bill are still the stars of the party, at least when
it comes to getting press and raising money. The fact that she was able to
win in New York as a carpetbagger says something, anyway.  

[0] Speaking of popular votes, I never hear these folks that complain about
Bush & the popular vote call JFK an illegitimate president.

-- 
Sean LeBlanc:seanleblanc at americanisp.net  
http://users.americanisp.net/~seanleblanc/
Get MLAC at: http://sourceforge.net/projects/mlac/
One that would have the fruit must climb the tree. 
-Thomas Fuller 