[CLUE-Talk] More lies? [Fwd: Iraq - 9/11 connection]

[Timothy C. Klein]

* Sean LeBlanc (seanleblanc at americanisp.net) wrote:
> On 12-15 22:58, Timothy C. Klein wrote:
> > * Sean LeBlanc (seanleblanc at americanisp.net) wrote:
> > > On 12-15 14:28, Randy Arabie wrote:
> Well, write me off as what you want. I have plenty of complaints about
> Republicans...most recently, it'd be the total fiscal irresponsibility,
> IMHO, although when I hear folks like former Grand Kleagle Senator Byrd
> talking about fiscal responsibility, I do have to admit that I have to laugh
> out loud. I'm partisan, all right, but it's for the Libertarians. :)

Ok, I didn't really write you off, I was just being snarky. It is good
to hear you can criticize Republicans.  The trouble with our current
system, as I see it, as that so many people don't choose a party they
really like -- they choose the one they hate the least.  I know that is
the case with me.  I used to be decidedly independent, but the last
10-15 years having being driving me to the Left, because that is the
side I dislike the least.

I actually agree, in principle, with a decent number of Republican
planks, but I think they take them too far. I am sure many Republicans
are the same way with Democrats. But the trouble is that the current
system is very antagonistic and bifurcated. I think that many on the
moderate Left have tried to avoid being hard-nosed partisans -- and
they lost a whole lot because of it. Their opponents on the Right were
the epitome of hard-nosed partisans, and they gained a lot. So now the
polarization is worse -- and I don't see it getting any better any time
soon.

> And I believe in dissent, but c'mon. Some of this stuff coming out of these
> people's mouth is just so simpering and so transparent that it's just
> pathetic, really. I mean especially Democrats like John Kerry: I used to
> actually semi-respect the guy as at least being level-headed and moderate.
> Now he seems to think that since his numbers are in the toilet, the way to
> get those numbers up is to move further to the left. Then he drops the
> F-bomb. And he rails against being in Iraq, when he voted to give Bush the
> authority on it, did he not? 

I don't follow Kerry.  But I really wish more politicians would use the
F-word.  It is such a great word.

> Then there's the 2000 election. No one likes a sore loser. And if the
> Democrats don't stop harping on that, I think they are sunk even without the
> other problems. Calling the election stolen, calling Bush the "president
> select", talking about the "popular vote"[0] as if that had any meaning in the
> current system, etc., is only going to have swing voters vote against the
> Dems. 

I think you are right that it *might* be bad strategy, but there are
extremely good reasons to be upset about it.  Like the 90,000 voters,
overwhelmingly black and Democrat or Democrat-leaning, that were purged
from the voter rolls just before election.  Because they were felons --
but as it turned out, the great majority were *not* felons.  All it
would have taken is 538 of those people to vote Gore, and things are
very different.  And the President's brother signed off on that.

Then there were the actual recounts, of which 6 of the 9 scenarios of
tallying the votes, Gore won.  That is going to stick in a whole lot of
people's mind.  And damn well it should!  It should be spurning us to
change or outright dump the antiquated and stupid electoral college.

> 
> Huh? It's you that put those words in my mouth. I don't think I said things
> are peachy, and I don't expect them to be at the drop of a hat. I was just
> making the point that the spin overdrive from some of the lefties was so
> predictable and also that they seem to be setting themselves up as a party
> that can only get their power back if there are failures in domestic and/or
> foreign policy.

I was just being snarky again.  But the candidates I am following don't
have any trouble with their position on Iraq.  They were unhappy about
the hows of our path to war.  They aren't wishing for failure.

> As for your cousin, I hope he doesn't end up having to go. Are you telling
> me that you don't think capturing Saddam just *might* influence things
> towards him not going?

I think it *might,* but I am very skeptical.  Especially given the
conditions of his capture.  But Iraqis have plenty of other reasons to
be annoyed with us.  This doesn't make any of them go away.  It
eliminates the fear of his return, but it remains to be seen how much
that really mattered.  I think it is more important, in the long run,
for Americans that Iraqis.

Tim
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== Timothy Klein || teece at silverklein.net   ==
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