[CLUE-Talk] Charlie Daniels comments, article about Saddam's sons.

[Matt Gushee]

On 24 Mar 2003 at 0:57, David Willson wrote:

> We went to war with Iraq because they had done some seriously 'Bad
> Things' when taking over and holding Kuwait.

Examples? Are you thinking, perhaps, of the taking-babies-from 
incubators story? That was propaganda cooked up by the Hill & 
Knowlton PR firm. The so-called eyewitness later turned out to be the 
daughter of the Kuwaiti ambassador to the US, and admitted in 
congressional hearings that she had never been to the hospital where 
the incident supposedly happened.

Or were you thinking of something else? Really, David, we have 
initiated a bloodbath, and you are talking about "Bad Things?" Anyone 
who advocates this carnage had bloody well (no pun intended) better 
know exactly what Bad Things they mean and be prepared to 
substantiate them.

> argue because I don't know the future.  Then, my fifth-grade son is
> learning about lying and extra-marital affairs and oral sex and lechery
> from this man that we elected, and my friends are telling me that what
> he did is no big deal as long as the economy stays good.  And I won't
> argue because I realize that my friends and I don't have so much in
> common, perhaps, and I begin to really hate Mr. Clinton, because his
> private life ~has~ affected his execution of the office, in every way
> that mattered to me, because my children matter more to me than he does.
> 
> Next, I voted against Clinton in every way remaining to me.

Fine. I understand that you had legitimate reasons to vote against 
Bill Clinton (in case you're interested, I never voted for him 
myself, nor did I vote for Gore in 2000). But I think if you propose 
that our leadership options must be either someone like Clinton or 
someone like Bush, you are grotesquely oversimplifying American 
politics. In any case, Clinton is not the issue here.

> Then Saddam Hussein defied the gazillionth U.N. resolution,

Don't exaggerate. Iraq has defied something like 16 Security Council 
resolutions, while Israel has defied ... 69, if I'm not mistaken. It 
would be more if we didn't frequently exercise our veto power on 
Israel's behalf. Moreover, *we* are now defying the UN Security 
Council by having launched this war. So maybe you'd best not bring 
the UN into it, either.

 > "Stick it in your eye.  Our President is doing exactly what I 
elected
> him to do.  He is eliminating a threat to my children.

You're not the only one with children, David, and I haven't seen any 
evidence that Iraq poses a threat to mine.

And I have to say that if you believe this will make the world safer 
for Americans, you are very naïve about the causes of terrorism. 
Believe it or not, we are not universally seen as being good guys, 
and this military adventure could easily ignite a storm of rage among 
Muslim fundamentalists. There is going to be a backlash.

> He is asserting
> in full view that no man may do whatever he pleases, at whatever cost to
> others, in direct violation of the law of the community, without fear of
> reprisal.

Oh really? What about Kim Jong Il of North Korea waving his nukes in 
our face?

> He is standing up for The Right Thing."  I am tired of
> hearing from my friends what horrid deeds should be overlooked,

Again, what horrid deeds are you talking about? Exactly what horrid 
deeds have I said should be overlooked?

We seem to have forgotten that bombs are not the only way to solve 
problems. As far as weapons go, there was an inspections program up 
until a few days ago, and it was working. If you want to talk about 
human rights, yes, there's certainly an issue, but I am very 
skeptical that the Bush administration really cares very much about 
it. After all, these are some of the same people (e.g. Cheney and 
Rumsfeld) who, after the first Gulf War, encouraged Iraq's Shiites 
and Kurds to rise up against Hussein and then abandoned them.

> Who are my peace-loving friends really trying to help?  If not the Iraqi
> citizens, then who?

How about American citizens? If we quit spending so much on war, we 
might be able to stop closing schools and VA hospitals.

-- 
Matt Gushee
Englewood, CO USA