[CLUE-Talk] Tolkien and allegory

[Dennis J Perkins]

I see no need to return to the trivium and quadrivium.  They were for a simpler 
time.  Did most schools ever teach these in America?  Maybe in college.

I do agree that the current system is deficient.  My parents said that it began 
to fall apart in my home town when the teachers got control of the schools.  A 
friend of mine in Washington made a similar comment about public education 
there.

5th grade?  That sounds plausible but do they have any hard facts to back this 
up, or is it another educational theory lacking any rigor and testing?  We have 
had enough of those.

I would like to see them teach advanced subjects earlier.  Not all students are 
capable of algebra or calculus, but teach it to those who can learn it.  
Combine it with science to give them practical use and teach them together at 
times instead of keeping them compartmentalized.

The classes should reinforce each other.  Science uses math.  Let math use 
science as well, when appropriate.  Insist on proper writing outside English 
class.  Challenge the students to think, and challenge their assumptions.  

I remember helping my niece with algebra one evening and the assignment was to 
guess the answer, not solve the problem.  This was not the teacher's idea.  It 
was in the book.  My high school teacher would have had a fit!

I've also noticed that the math books no longer make it possible to learn from 
the book without the teacher's help.  I guess that is one way to slow down the 
advanced students.

I also disagree with the use of calculators in most math classes.  Yes, they 
reduce the drudgery, but they also do the mental work for the students and can 
hide the fact that students have not mastered the material.  Let them use 
calculators in science, where math is a tool, not the subject to be mastered.

My nephew is taking classes on robotics and aviation, but he has difficulty 
with math and writing.  In one class, he was supposed to pretend to be founding 
a colony in America and he was supposed to choose the site, but when I asked 
him why he chose that site, he couldn't give an answer.  Did he consider water, 
fields, wood, shelter from ocean storms, trade with Indians?  It turns out they 
were supposed to avoid trespassing on Indian lands!

Instead of robotics, or as a prerequisite to robotics, teach electronics with 
plenty of math.  As they learn more, they can start building simple robots.  Or 
whatever.  My high school electronics class had a test every Friday, but in the 
second year we could do our own projects.



> On Sunday 11 January 2004 5:52 pm, Dennis J Perkins wrote:
> > I agree that students should be taught critical thinking.  I'm just not
> > sure at what age they are ready and how much that depends on the student.
> 
> According to The Well-Trained Mind, by Jessie Bauer and Susan Wise-Bauer, it 
> should be taught as early as 5th grade.  This book describes something 
> unknown for at least 2 generations of American students - the classic 
> education, formally known as the trivium.  Reading this book helped me 
> understand why the current educational system in American is deficient, 
> particularly when it comes to critical thinking training.
> 
> Not to despair if you missed out (like the rest of us) - you can bone up on 
> your classical education using The Well-Educated Mind.
> 
>  + http://www.well-educatedmind.com/
> 
> Jeff
> -- 
> http://isuma.org/
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