[clue-talk] Hello CLUE

[Nate Duehr]

On Aug 6, 2006, at 5:59 PM, Greg Knaddison - GVS wrote:

> On 8/6/06, Michael Fierro <biffster at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I see it as a network. They coulda chosen to do a ring-style network,
>> combining all of the outlaying stations together, or a star network.
>
> Except it's not a network.  It's a transportation system.

Same thing.

> Transportation systems are usually hub+spoke+wheel systems.

So are most networks, except long-haul ones.

> hub=downtwon (or somewhere near downtown)
> spokes=I25, Santa Fe, 6th Ave, etc.
> wheel = 225, 470

That's pretty much all there are.  Denver's road system sucks just as  
bad as its mass transit.

Denver should have built more north-south capacity 10 years ago, and  
not by widening I-25 or putting in toll roads.  Salt Lake bit the  
bullet and completely CLOSED their north-south highway during their  
expansion because they knew they needed it before the Olympics.  The  
cities are very similar in both their short-sighted growth plans for  
transportation, and their existing road infrastructure.  SLC's  
project was done in two years.  Denver's has taken how many and still  
isn't complete?

> The trains are following the same patterns just a few years later
> because, as Collins points out, us westerners like us some cars (and
> SUVS!  YeeHAW!).  But when the political demand for the wheel comes
> along in 2016 or so, littleton to DTC will be easy to add along the
> 470 line.

Trains always end up where the right-of-ways are available for them  
if they come late to the game.  Rarely are those right-of-ways where  
the people are or where they need to go.  Littleton to DTC?  Please.   
Who cares?

CDOT is in a court battle with Douglas County right now over widening  
C-470.  CDOT claims there is no money to do it the "normal" way but  
they can cost-justify HOV lanes that allow tolls like the idiotic  
system that only runs one-way on I-25 north of Downtown.  (All that  
system does is keep busses on time... thirty cars a day and two lanes  
wide wasted.  If they were willing to open it up to the regular  
traffic whenever I-25 was jammed, that'd be one thing, but as it  
stands it is just a giant waste of money and real-estate better used  
for standard highway lanes.  E-470 is just developers and landlords  
making a lot of money -- one of the most expensive toll roads in the  
US.)  Douglas County said "normal highway or we won't give you a  
building permit".  Now it's in court to see who our elected judges  
think should get their way -- CDOT widening the lanes for 10 cars an  
hour and a few busses, or Douglas County who says they'll just deal  
with the conjestion until CDOT comes up with a REASONABLE plan.

Of course, much of this isn't CDOT's fault -- when was the last time  
you personally voted for higher taxes for roads?  I'm fiscally  
conservative but almost always vote for road expansion because  
without uncongested roads, none of us get around or get any business  
done.

--
Nate Duehr
nate at natetech.com