[clue-talk] How do CLUEbies vote?

[David L. Willson]

Brian (and our respected readers):

So my summary of your point is reasonably accurate.  To summarize what
you've said below, it's been happening all along and it'll happen
anyway, so why try to stop it?

Here are my counter-points, which I will count on you to refute:

The unborn is a human, and should have the rights that we associate with
our humanity.  We (you and I, grown-up humans) can speak, and demand our
rights, I have chosen to speak on behalf of the unborn.  As a person who
was conceived unintentionally and carried under stressful circumstances,
I can confidently say that I prefer not to have been destroyed back
then.  Furthermore, even if the stressful circumstances of my
development had been many times worse, I prefer, beg, even demand, that
my mother endured them, for my sake, because she began me, and because I
am human.  I prefer, beg, even demand, that she should not, may not, and
must not, destroy me, after having begun me, for my sake, and for hers.
I have the right to life.  I only lay that right down, silently, if it's
"her or me".  In that case, and only that case, I choose to nobly
sacrifice my life, to protect hers.  I do NOT lay down my life for her
reputation, her convenience, or her career.  She can set those things
aside, so that I can live.  She started it, so to speak, and "I got my
rights" as the saying goes.  Only ...  I don't "got my rights".  Why?

I assert that less people will have abortions if it is illegal,
inconvenient, and/or unsafe for the mother.  It is already guaranteed to
be fatal for the baby.  I can't stop murder, theft, rape, or other forms
of abuse, but that doesn't mean that they should be legal, safe, and
convenient.  How ridiculous.  In what sort of society would we not even
try to defend the defenseless?  Apparently, ~this~ sort of society.
Shame on us.  Let us be shamed into action.

I will add a third element before I conclude.  I assert that induced
abortion's criminal quality is best revealed by the natural response of
guilt and shame that I, and a majority of those that made the choice to
kill, feel.  When a majority of people feel shame and guilt over an
action, it is reasonable to assume that that action is not healthy and
normal.

My conclusion, then, is that we must do everything we can to "abolish"
abortion, in the same way, and for the same reasons, that we abolished
slavery.  We have not eliminated slavery, it still exists, but we have
done what we can, and we have prevented it, in many cases, and we have
reached a point of understanding where very few people regard the
ownership of another person as something that is normal and healthy, and
should be legal, convenient, or safe.  We need to work together to get
to the same place with abortion.  Why?  Because we will save lives; more
people like me will make it to their birth day and beyond.  Because we
will save consciences; less people like me will have to live with the
guilt of choosing a permanent, predatory solution to a temporary problem
of inconvenience.  Because it is good and heroic to defend the
defenseless.  Wouldn't you have spoken out against slavery, against the
Holocaust?  Wouldn't you have sheltered one slave, bought him and then
set him free, or hidden one refugee?  What does it mean to know that
nearly 50 million people have been killed over inconvenience and do
nothing about it?  By way of comparison, 6 million people died in the
Nazi holocaust, and half a million were dragged from their homes and
enslaved here in America.  Why do you keep silent now or worse, defend
it?

This is the atrocity of our time, which we can abolish.

David

On Mon, 2007-09-24 at 22:58 -0700, Brian Gibson wrote:
> Yes, abortions will happen whether it's criminalized
> or not.  From the perspective of the woman seeking the
> abortion, if the (economic, social, personal, etc.)
> benefit of getting one is greater than the (economic,
> social, personal, etc.) risk/cost, and an opportunity
> is available, the abortion will take place.  
> 
> It's why people buy lottery tickets.  It's why some
> people parachute.  It's why some people speed.  It's
> why some people skim from the office supply closet. 
> It's why some people smoke marijuana.  It's why meth
> is one of the fastest growing drug of choice.  Though
> people may not think deeply about all the choices they
> make, but at some level, their choices are governed by
> how much benefit they'll receive versus how much it'll
> cost them.  Some people are less risk averse than
> others.  Laws will not prevent people from choosing
> one action over the other.  What laws do is inform a
> person that should they choose a certain course of
> action that they may face certain consequences should
> they be charged and successfully prosecuted.  
> 
> So as I said before criminalizing abortions will do
> little to prevent them from occurring.  It'll
> certainly increase the risk and cost to the person
> seeking the abortion, arguably needlessly so.  For
> those, where the benefit is greater than this now
> higher risk/cost they'll get the abortion if it's
> available.  Sean's example of the elite politician and
> parent, comes to mind.
> 
> Social conservatives tend to attack what they perceive
> as a problem the wrong way.  Trying to overturn Roe v.
> Wade is the wrong tactic.  Should it ever get
> overturned, it just means that the choice of
> legalization will be handled at the state level, and
> so rather than going to one's family doctor to address
> the issue, you'll have people crossing state lines
> going to public clinics or, heaven forbid, out of your
> HMO's network.  Seriously, if you want to curb
> abortion, help educate the populous on the importance
> of contraception and family planning.  And none of
> this abstinence-only til marriage programs.  Not
> everyone wants to get married.  Not everyone _can_ get
> married.  And realistically, not everyone will wait
> til they're married.  Sex was around long before
> marriage ever entered the scene.  
> 
> It's really disheartening to have a teen give birth to
> a child, that dies due to negligence, indifference, or
> malice, and tossed out in the garbage.  This could
> have been prevented if the teen had comprehensive sex
> education, access to contraception, and encouraged to
> use it.  An open dialogue with her parents and/or her
> physician would have helped in listing all her
> available options, and perhaps even convinced her to
> not engage in sex at all in the first place because
> her subsequent actions clearly showed she lacked the
> maturity to engage in it.  Lastly, even knowledge of
> safe haven laws may have helped.  
> 
> And that's the key.  One can't have too much
> information.  The more information one has available
> the more likely the choice one makes will be the right
> one for them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- "David L. Willson" <DLWillson at TheGeek.NU> wrote:
> 
> > Brian,
> > 
> > Your post is far too long, so I need to paraphrase,
> > to be sure I get your meaning.
> > 
> > Do I understand your argument in favor of legal,
> > safe, convenient abortion to be that
> > abortion will happen whether it is legal, safe, and
> > convenient or not, so it may as well
> > be legal, safe, and convenient?
> > 
> > David
> > _______________________________________________
> > clue-talk mailing list
> > clue-talk at cluedenver.org
> > http://www.cluedenver.org/mailman/listinfo/clue-talk
> > 
> 
> 
> 
>        
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