[clue-talk] Wow, Card's a little political...

[Nate Duehr]

On Nov 2, 2008, at 12:46 AM, Angelo Bertolli wrote:

> Uhhh, yeah, that's exactly what I'm afraid of.  I don't hate McCain  
> as an individual, but he is surrounded by a crowd I don't like.  And  
> that crowd seems to be growing in the Republican party.

And the Democratic Party isn't experiencing the same craziness?   I  
thought that would be implied by my comments that Obama can't fight  
his own Party.

Handing over the creation of the laws of the land to the likes of  
Nancy Pelosi with no checks and balances, isn't exactly a good idea.

> I really don't think McCain can stand up to his own party either.   
> Unlike Brian (or was it Sean?) I don't think that McCain was always  
> a political opportunist just because of recent history, I really  
> think he's finally agreed to go along with the party politics as his  
> "last chance" at becoming President.  As an individual, he really  
> deserves the office more than anyone.  Unfortunately,  I can't  
> really vote that way just because I feel he deserves it.

You either believe in who he is, or you don't.  I don't have any  
reason to believe who Obama says he is in his infomercials.  He has an  
aunt living in the country illegally in government-subsidized housing,  
and he claims to be the "compassionate" candidate?  He has no  
compassion on his own family, why believe the marketing hype?

> Well that's what I thought at first too:  take the Hillary voters.   
> But I don't think he's really gained much in that area.  What he did  
> secure was a segment of the Republican base that was a little uneasy  
> with him for his mavrickness.  I think it is just a really obvious  
> political move, and I think they felt they could somehow tell one  
> set of people, "McCain's half Democrat," while telling another set  
> of people, "McCain's totally Republican."  It didn't work.

That "maverick" (ugh, getting tired of that word) was called that  
because he voted his mind, not his Party.  He may have had to toe the  
Party line a bit more to gain the nomination, but if someone thinks he  
won't vote the way he thinks in the future, that's beyond what I can  
convince them of.  I think he will.

He also personally probably has some pretty deep-seeded hatred for  
most of Bush's Cabinet, after the sleazy stuff Bush did to him in  
2000... using the very nasty "Southern Strategy" of racism against  
McCain by making phone calls to Southern Republicans and pointing out  
McCain's adopted child wasn't white.

Does anyone REALLY think McCain is going to "buddy up" nicely with the  
members of his Party that did that to him?

Karl Rove was involved in that, and I believe he's only involved in  
McCain's campaign now because of his uncanny abilities to determine  
why people vote.  But does anyone really think McCain wouldn't toss  
the guy out of one of the doors of his aircraft in flight, if given  
the opportunity with no consequences?

The Party go-to campaign guy used McCain's FAMILY against him in  
2000.  No one gets away with that forever with someone who ends up  
President of the United States.

McCain will bring his own advisors and his own Cabinet, for the most  
powerful positions, and only give up positions of no real consequence  
to his Party -- I'm almost certain of that.

> So you don't think the VP has any influence or matters at all?  I  
> think it's still an important political office, regardless of  
> whatever is specifically prescribed in the Constitution for the  
> office.  Saying that she's not the sharpest knife in the drawer is  
> putting it mildly.  The very fact that she seems to be in lock-step  
> with the extremist Republicans and that McCain saw fit to choose her  
> over other better qualified candidates makes me question his  
> judgement.  Although I wouldn't go as far as Christopher Hitchens as  
> to say that McCain is getting senile.

Influence yes.  Power, virtually none.  Tie-breaker in the Senate and  
a mouthpiece for the President.  Anything else would be inappropriate,  
and Washington politicians, the press and we the people  would  
marginalize her immediately, if she disrespected the wishes of the  
sitting President.

If he were to pass away, that's a little more murky, but voting ageism  
is inappropriate and kinda just as sick as those voting for racial  
reasons, really.

How many of us have elders who have lived to 90?  100?  I've had two  
pass 100, and my last surviving grandfather is still driving (if he  
really wants to, but he knows his limits and rarely does -- but he  
drove himself to the DMV and passed the driver's test) at age 90.

Most of us here probably have some idea what the schedule of a person  
campaigning for President is probably like.  If McCain didn't drop  
dead during that -- he's not going to drop in the White House.

> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AD8uHW0hbiA
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGMWdDNMpZY
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YV-2OuihEsA
>
> At any rate, it's obvious that the Republicans believe she has a  
> political role.  Some people are voting McCain soley because of her  
> stances on things like abortion and gay marriage.

The religious right needed a place to hang their hats, and that's the  
Republican "big tent" Party, like it or not.  Ignoring that a very  
large percentage of this country's citizenry is deeply Christian is  
always a huge political mistake, when made by either Party.

Obama's dubious "Christian" background is based in Chicago's deep  
racial issues, and large anti-white churches, so he can't pander to  
that group.  If he could, I'm sure he would.  Would that make it better?

> Ok, I tracked down whatever clips I found on YT, but I hadn't seen  
> all of these:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vL20TdHjX2s

So... this first one appears to be an Obama campaign led group of  
Obama supporters purposely pissing off attendees of a McCain rally.   
Not sure what that proves other than that if you send a bunch of Obama  
supporters to a McCain rally, people on both sides act stupid.

The whole scene is along a road the McCain bus apparently has to pass  
by later on the way out of the event.

The "Bomb Obama" guy is obviously harmless, and misguided.  When asked  
what he means he says he doesn't want him to win, not to see him dead,  
but then he says he's heard that Obama will be assassinated if he's  
elected.  A wack-job for sure, but not the majority of the crowd or  
even anything more than the opinions of a single old crackpot, really.

I'm more interested in why there's an Obama contingent there with  
cameras and Obama signs, in the first place.  Looks like it was  
purposely staged to garner hateful comments.

> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kf6YKOkfFsE

McCain talks down supporters who speak who say Obama is an "Arab" and  
that they can't trust him, and says he respects Obama.  Not sure what  
the point here is other than that every politician has people  
following them for the wrong reasons.

A Denver radio station (and also The Tonight Show, but I'm more  
interested in what happens here, not in California) went out and asked  
people on the street if they agreed with Obama's campaign while  
speaking McCain's platform planks, and people would say, "Yes, that's  
why I'm voting for Obama!"  The best one was, "Do you approve of  
Barack Obama's choice of Sarah Palin as his running mate?"   
"Absolutely!"

Are there some really REALLY dumb people following these guys on both  
sides?  Yes.

> This is a weird one...
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjxzmaXAg9E

Yeah, that's one's a sad one.  Not sure where the "mob" is, but a  
catchy title there.  Quite a few ignorant people there, but no "mob".

(Let's discuss whether or not you think there are any ignorant people  
at any Obama rallies, if we're really going to go here...)


> You know, "nobama" sounds way too close to "Obama."  I wonder if  
> there isn't a better catch-phrase that won't confuse people.

LOL!  True.

> Why?  If you're not making as much as Joe the plumber (250k) and you  
> don't have any capital gains (do any of have any now?) you really  
> have nothing to worry about from Obama.  I can buy arguments that  
> you just don't think people should be taxed that much in general,  
> but otherwise I would think you'd be in Obama's camp on this issue.   
> Is McCain going to really reduce your taxes?  These stupid stimulus  
> packages are a joke, at least for me.  But I guess that's coming  
> from both sides of the aisle.


Well, if you watched the infomercial, the number changed to $200K, but  
everyone's ignoring that one as it got slipped in.  And "American"  
includes the corporate entities that are small business.  Know any  
small businesses that are successful that don't make about $250K a  
year?  A five employee business can hit that, easily.

And yes, I dabble in the stock market, so I do have capital gains.  In  
fact, if I ever purchase any other assets other than my home I live  
in, I will have to pay capital gains when I sell it.  (Other than tax- 
sheltered things like Municipal Bonds.)

Anyone who has more than $200K in a retirement fund they're living off  
of will also get hit as they withdraw those funds from certain types  
of investments, I believe.  (Would have to check that one.  I'm not a  
retiree and far from it, so I don't follow that end of the fiscal  
lifespan closely yet.  I could ask a few retirees.)

(The stock dabbling today is nothing of any serious consequence, but  
I'm learning and practicing with money I can afford to lose.  I'm up  
6.5% for the year, and that's a hell of a lot better than the  
market... so I believe I'm not doing TOO badly... the S&P 500 is down  
18% in October alone.  And calling it dabbling is making light of the  
amount of work and research necessary... but this isn't a discussion  
about investing strategy.)

Here's the reality on taxes:

McCain will attempt (but lose) to uphold the Bush tax cuts that expire  
in 2010.  Obama is very careful to say, "You will not have a tax  
increase" in his statements, but he does NOT say he'll leave the Bush  
tax cuts in place.

The "repair" of AMT will also drop out again next year, even though it  
was reinstated by Congress as one of the riders on the Banking Bailout  
bill.

(Along with $150 BILLION in other pork, that wasn't banking bailouts  
at all.  Did anyone notice?  Did anyone complain to their  
politicians?  I did.  I would have voted for a bailout with certain  
provisions... that weren't put on the banks... but not for the  
additional $150 billion.  Again, a President who would have the guts  
to wield a line-item veto could have been useful.)

Net result:  My taxes are maybe going up in 2009 and definitely going  
up in 2010 -- and so are yours, in either a McCain or an Obama  
Presidency.  And he'll be able to say he didn't pass any "increases".


>> Nothing ... absolutely NOTHING in history shows that socializing  
>> healthcare makes it better.  Nothing shows that higher taxes on  
>> capital gains or government leads to real sustainable growth.   
>> Nothing shows that ANY of his policies will help anyone but those  
>> already on a government dole.  It concerns me deeply that people  
>> think they will without any proof.  They're just following the  
>> populist wave created by electing Bush and finding out his  
>> character was lacking.
>
> Yeah, but to be fair, both candidates suck on the health care  
> issue.  For me that puts the issue off the table.

Ahh, let's be more involved than that and help 'em figure out other  
alternatives to their two sucky plans.

Otherwise they'll just attempt to do something neither one of us  
wants, which seems a very popular thing to do in Washington these days.

Of course, Obama can get whatever he wants done with the House and  
Senate, McCain will be ham-strung unless everyone agrees.  Everyone  
agreeing on this topic with a high majority, is unlikely, since both  
plans stink.

--
Nate Duehr
nate at natetech.com