[clue-talk] Obama, McCain, and the American flag

[Nate Duehr]

On Nov 2, 2008, at 12:23 PM, Brian Gibson wrote:

> At no point did I say I condoned Ayers' action,

> I will fault him for his methods, but I will not fault him for  
> fighting and standing up for his beliefs.

Belief in something and saying so is noble, blowing up your own  
countrymen for those beliefs isn't.  The right is to Free Speech, not  
to free bombing of other Citizens of the country.

> If Ayers continues to think he was in the right, he's more than  
> welcome to.  It's his prerogative to do so.

Excuse me... Didn't you just argue that he was repentant and sorry for  
his deeds?  Now you're defending his "perogative" to say he should  
have bombed more people?

> We're not the thought police.  However, since those days he's gone  
> on record to condemn terrorism, particular 9/11.  Having been a  
> former terrorist, he would certainly have a unique take.

His "take" is whatever gets him publicity -- he's a contrarian who  
isn't satisfied to just to say things contrary to popular belief, he's  
willing to kill people to prove he's "right".

That's far more dangerous than any mentally ill serial killer or gang- 
crime thug.  He's a cold, calculated murderer who got away with it.   
Obama had to have known this and still associated with him?

> And of course you're quoting what the reporter put in the  
> interview.  Unfortunately, there's no recording of said interview so  
> there's no way to corroborate either side's take.  Somehow "We  
> didn't do enough" became "I wish I had bombed more".  Ayers claims  
> to be misquoted, the reporter stands by the interview.

I believe the interviewer was Bill O'Reilly and the video is  
available.  2005.

Your concern here seems to be to make sure Ayers looks more "normal"  
than he is, so I can't possibly question Obama's relationship to him.   
You'll stop at nothing to convince yourself he's somehow like you and  
me, when he's not.

Would you make this argument in the living room of the parents of the  
people he killed?  Get some sense of decency, really.  To back Ayers  
in any way is pure evil and there's no getting around it.  Imagine  
yourself as one of those parents, if you still disagree.  Your child  
was blown up for this man's political ideology, and he dedicated his  
book to an assassin?

I'd try to compare him to serial killers if I were you (you tried that  
tactic also), since we all know now that serial killers are often  
mentally ill.  Ayers isn't.  He's bright, has a radical political  
agenda to this day, and he chose in a cold, calulated way to blow  
people up, and got away with it.

If you were on a jury with proper police work and evidence, you'd  
convict and send him to jail.  You wouldn't say, "Well he stood up for  
his beliefs."  Get real.  The guy is scum and the type of person we  
created law and order to make sure he's never anywhere near us or our  
children.  100% sleaze hiding in an Academic robe now that he's older  
and realizes it's the only place in society where he can spout his  
hate of this country, and call it "educational material".

How many of his students in his classrooms are told, "This man admits  
he blew people up for this ideology and would gladly do it again",  
before they attend classes?

> I think much of the objections to Ayers certainly stem from the  
> bombings, but also from the fact that he got away with it because  
> the prosecution and police failed to do its job.  There's no justice  
> in that.  Because of that, people still want to hold Ayers  
> responsible for his actions and writings over 40 years ago,  
> irrespective of any positive influence he may have had since.

Yes, he's a radical murderer, and his behavior of self-aggrandizing  
hasn't changed in 40 years.  He spent much of September in Cuba,  
apparently.  (Hard to vet that, but numerous sources have it.)

> I agree with McCain on this one, "I don’t care about an old washed- 
> up terrorist".  However, if you want to continue on this McCarthy- 
> like guilt-by-association track of connecting Ayers and Rev. Wright  
> and then saying because of that Obama thinks like they do, be my  
> guest.  McCain's got Keating, Hagee, Liddy, and of course, George W.  
> Bush.  Palin has the Alaska Independence Party and her own church.

Wright and Ayers aren't linked to each other as far as I know, unless  
you're bringing up something new.

As far as Wright goes, Obama just willingly attended his church for 20  
years until it became inconvenient.  Then he quit.  At least Palin has  
the guts to continue going to her church, even if it's politically  
incorrect for some.

Again, you are known by the company you keep, is all I ever said about  
it.  I can't find anything like copies of "Prairie Fire" or see any  
Master's thesis papers full of hatred of white people from the friends  
or spouses of McCain or Palin.  (Well, in their case it would have to  
be hatred of black people to be the same as Michelle Obama's writings.)

Maybe Todd Palin will write a book someday on snowmobile racing.   
There's some big controversy for us all to enjoy.  :-)

You sound like the lawyer hollering "Objection!" and I'm the other guy  
saying, "It goes to CHARACTER, your Honor, which could also affect  
motive."

The American people get to be the judge, deciding if they'll allow  
your objection against the evidence, Tuesday.

--
Nate Duehr
nate at natetech.com