[clue-talk] Obama, McCain, and the American flag

[Angelo Bertolli]

Grant Johnson wrote:
> David L. Willson wrote:
>> Perfect answer.  Thank you.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Brian Gibson" <bwg1974 at yahoo.com>
>> To: "CLUE talk" <clue-talk at cluedenver.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, November 2, 2008 7:38:32 PM GMT -07:00 US/Canada Mountain
>> Subject: Re: [clue-talk] Obama, McCain, and the American flag
>>
>> Because you are born with rights.  You are not fertilized with them.
>>   
> The real problem is "where do you draw the line?"   Is it at the 
> youngest age a premie has ever survived?   Maybe since the baby 
> requires the mother for nourishment for the first year out of the 
> womb, we just go with that.   Even better, since the parents can be 
> held responsible until the kid turns 18, let's just go with that.   I 
> say we enact retroactive abortion.
>
> There are currently states where a child that comes out alive when the 
> abortion fails, and is old enough to make it, is not afforded warmth 
> and nourishment.   What a horrible way to go.
>
> The baby's blood type and DNA is different from the mother's from the 
> moment of conception.  It is a distinct individual.   Not something to 
> be discarded if inconvenient.   I can't even shoot a wolf in my back 
> yard that is threatening my children.   Far beyond inconvenient, but 
> then again, wolves are more valuable than humans in the view of some

I tend to agree.  But you want to leave it up to a vote,  most people 
think abortion in the third trimester is wrong, but abortion in the 
first trimester is ok.  People of different religious values tend to 
view the situation differently, DNA or not:  at a certain point in 
development it becomes human.  And then there's the human tendency to 
want a clear line that we can use for legal basis.  The two most clear 
lines are 1) conception, and 2) birth.

Just banning abortions though without putting some kind of 
infrastructure in place that will prevent and "solve" unwanted 
pregnancies will lead to underground abortions.  Abstinence is good,  
but not really effective since people are going to still have sex, and 
guys are definitely going to want it.  Contraception and education about 
preventing pregnancy, easy access, is absolutey the best realistic way 
to stop unwanted pregnancies, but a lot of the right-wing thinkers are 
religious and don't want their kids being given contraception.  And a 
lot of women have problems with adoption.  I've heard more women say 
they'd rather have an abortion than give their child up for adoption 
because they thought it would be "too hard" for them to do.


Angelo