UNSUBSCRIBE YOURSELF, was [CLUE-Tech] Please Unsubscribe

[Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier]

On Tue, 2003-06-10 at 10:22, Michael J. Hammel wrote:
> On Tue, 2003-06-10 at 10:40, Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier wrote:
> > What, because it's a Linux list we have to bend over backwards for
> > people who are too damn lazy to follow instructions? 
> 
> Maybe you should bend over backwards because its a nice thing to do?  We
> are, after all, talking about a simple unsubscribe request.  Annoying,
> maybe.  Difficult to honor, not really.  And really not worth all this
> fuss, I think.

This particular incident may not be worth the fuss, but I've been on
mailing lists since about 1995, and I've had it to here with people who
can't be bothered to unsubscribe themselves from lists -- it's not just
a Linux thing. 

> > It's one thing if
> > he'd tried to unsubscribe and there was an error -- but just being too
> > damn lazy? 
> 
> Hate him for his laziness if you like.  But geez, Zonk.  You're getting
> pretty riled for something pretty simple.

Obviously, you've never actually seen me riled. 

Look, the guy has found time to send two e-mails to the list -- why
can't he find time to click on a link at the bottom of the list and do
the nice, responsible thing and unsubscribe himself rather than
expecting other people to clean up his messes for him? 

What really has me annoyed is people actually defending this person
who's too lazy to be bothered to unsubscribe and criticizing people who
think he should be responsible enough to unsubscribe himself. 

> > I've got news for you, very few mailing lists are tolerant of this kind
> > of crap. This is netiquette 101 -- if you opt-in to a mailing list, you
> > take the responsibility to opt back out. If you can't be bothered, maybe
> > you don't belong online. 
> 
> Is this the attitude you take in your articles for Linux Magazine - "if
> you're too lazy to figure this out then don't bother reading my
> article"?  Are you writing for the technically savvy crowd or the
> unwashed masses?  If the latter, I hope this isn't the attitude you
> start with.

Apples and oranges, Mike. If I write an article covering topic X, I do
expect someone to read the whole thing before e-mailing me and asking me
to explain it all over again, though. If they have a follow-up question
or need clarification, I'm happy to try to help if I can. When someone
makes an honest effort and doesn't get it, hey, I'm happy to try to
explain it again in a way that makes sense... and I'm not afraid to tell
a reader (politely) when they might need a little more basic background
before they're ready to try something I've written about.  

I'm perfectly willing to help someone who is trying to help themselves
-- I'm not willing to just do it for them because they can't be
bothered. 

> It's been awhile, but this doesn't sound like the Zonk I used to know. 
> Relax, dude.  Just unsubscribe the guy and be done with it.  If you
> don't have the admin access to do so, then I really have to ask "Why
> does this bother you so much?"

I don't have admin access. It bothers me because this is representative
of the general attitude in our society. "I can't be bothered, it's
somebody else's problem. I have no responsibility for my own actions.
Let someone else take care of it." 

Yes, this is just one very, very, very small symptom, but it's a raging
problem. 

> > If this is a CIO, they'd go with Windows because Linux would seem too
> > hard anyway...if they can't handle a simple Webpage to unsubscribe from
> > a mailing list, they're not a prime candidate for Linux either. 
> 
> This is the old Unix attitude.  Welcome to the club Zonk.  It will do
> little, however, to expand the appeal of Linux.

Hey, I'm all about expanding the appeal of Linux, but not to the point
of smiling when someone tries to feed me shit. There is a point when you
have to be able to say "hey, deal with it yourself, you're fully capable
of doing that on your own and you shouldn't expect someone else to do it
for you." 

As far as I'm concerned, though, this isn't a Linux issue -- it's a
"being on a mailing list" issue. You could sign up for the Underwater
Basket-Weaving list and get the same kind of response if you send an
"unsubscribe me" message instead of doing it yourself... but I suppose
the underwater basket-weavers should just grin and bear it lest they
turn away a potential underwater basket-weaver. 

Zonker
-- 
Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier
jzb at dissociatedpress.net
Aim: zonkerjoe
http://www.dissociatedpress.net