[CLUE-Tech] Red Hat Ending Support (Long, but very pertinent
and an enjoyable read - really, I wouldn't kid you....)
John Kennedy
kennedy456 at totalspeed.net
Fri Jan 16 11:06:25 MST 2004
Hi Dave,
I really appreciate you taking the time to put your Redhat/Fedora
thoughts down and share them. As a RH user since 4.1 I must admit I
was really disappointed when they announced that RH-9.0 was the end of
the line and I was a little suspicious of their intentions re: fedora.
Your take on this makes sense and puts it all in perspective for me.
Thanks for taking the time and sharing with us.
John Kennedy
Dave Hahn wrote:
> Mike Staver wrote:
>
>> With Red Hat Ending Support for some of their previous versions, and
>> soon to be 9:
>>
>> http://www.redhat.com/support/errata/archives/
>>
> RedHat is moving away from the RedHat Personal Boxed Edition of their
> distribution. The new versions, RedHat Enterprise (Workstation, Server,
> etc) and Fedora Core are based the on previous versions of RedHat. The
> decision was made in order to seperate the personal/no-pay-for-support
> version and their enterprise/pay-for-support versions. However, in the
> explanation of Fedora Core to the world, RedHat meant the renaming of
> the personal version to Fedora Core to:
>
> * Show that it was a more disparate product from the enterprise
> versions as a matter of technology - the newer stuff would be put
> into Fedora first (new kernels, new package versions, etc) and
> Fedora will have a more aggressive release schedule (every 4-6 months)
> * Set apart the enterprise version for users that (1) wanted to have
> paid support from the manufacturer and (2) wanted a longer release
> cycle to avoid the upgrade crunches
>
> Unfortunately, they failed miserably to reach this goal and instead
> communicated that the personal version was dead and Enterprise was the
> only RedHat product - not the intention.
>
> It is important to understand that:
>
> * Although Fedora Core has more direct input from the community then
> previous versions, it is still an active RedHat product - RedHat
> hosts the servers, RedHat uses Fedora as a testing ground for what
> will eventually end up in the Enterprise versions and RedHat still
> pays employees to work on Fedora Core. As an example, look at the
> FC lists, not only are they as active, if not more so then the
> previous RedHat lists, RedHat employees actively contribute to the
> conversations as well as the code base.
> * RedHat has really done nothing more then look at how other
> distributions behave and have created RedHat products with those
> advantages while keeping the products RedHat-ish. Examples:
> o Debian Stable - The Debian stable version is considered by
> many to be "behind the curve" as the Linux world rotates.
> However, the goal of the distribution is to maintain a *very
> stable* and very secure distribution by keeping behind the
> curve and staying with established software versions and
> waiting for the later version to more fully complete the
> development cycle before becoming part of the stable tree.
> o Lindows, Knoppix, Progeny, and other Debian based
> distributions - Other people seeing the advantages of Debian
> wanted to create a stable distribution with newer software
> and "a better face forward" then was shown by the standard
> Debian stable distribution. o Mandrake - The
> Mandrake team is always adding the newest
> bits and pieces to the Cooker and bringing them out in their
> version rather quickly. This makes Mandrake an exciting
> distribution to use because the new stuff is always just
> around the corner. However, the common criticism is that,
> at times, some stability or interoperatbility is traded for
> the new stuff. In answer, Mandrake stated creating
> sub-distributions, such as their Firewall, that focused more
> stability and special use then does the main distribution.
> o Gentoo - Gentoo is about performance and tweakage. However,
> it is not for the faint of heart and their goal is not to
> reach those people. A few examples - the "installer" is a
> text file, every package requires compilation and an
> understanding of how compiles, development and libraries
> work together.
> o WhiteBoxLinux and TaoLinux - Build from the source RPMS that
> are used to make RedHat Enterprise Linux.
> o Suport Organizations - Groups outside RedHat have said they
> will continue to upgrade 7.3 - 9 with new code and packages
> * What is important to note is that none of these distributors are
> wrong - their goals are different. Previously at RedHat, the
> attempt always was to make a distribution that would attempt to
> fit as many of these needs as possible:
> o New enough to have some of the newer sexy features without
> compromising statbility
> o A blend of packages and system design that could be
> applicable to the workstation as well as the server and the
> cluster environment
> o Try to reach the developer, the user and the newbie
> o In short, be everything to everybody.
> * This approach brought them rather far down road, however, the hand
> writing was on the wall - the needed to not just grow toward the
> needs of these different groups - they needed to meet and exceed
> them. In order to do so, a split of the product line and the
> RedHat way of doing things was required.
> o Fedora Core - Merge the RH9 Personal product with one or
> more the "Non-RedHat RPM Repositories" and include the
> developers that, in creating these additional RedHat
> packages, have proven to understand the product as well as
> the needs of the users. Blend RedHat with the community and
> allow the community more time in the dirver's seat of the
> product.
> o Enterprise - Allow organizations that want a longer life
> product as well as a "manufacturer" to purchase products and
> support that fulfilled their needs. Essentially, RedHat was
> commiting more to their products - from a contractual and
> liability standpoint, then they had previously.
>
> So, in function, was does this mean?
>
> * Fedora Core 1 - Still a RedHat product with more community
> support. No more boxed versions to be sold. However, in it's
> technical essence, it is RedHat 10. Fedora Cora 2 (FC2) is in
> testing and will likely be released in April. In following the
> RedHat guide to version numbers (i.e. anything that may break
> binary or other large compatibility items - major number change -
> if not, minor number change) FC2 will be somewhat equivalent to
> RedHat 11 - new kernel, change in glibc (some although not
> enormous), etc.
> * RedHat Enterprise - A product supported by RedHat, contractually,
> with more guarantees for stability over the long haul.
> Additionally, it gives a place for more "certifiable" versions of
> software - i.e. Oracle, DB2, etc - on a platform that will not
> undergo large changes for a longer abount of time. (Estimated
> release of RHEL4 is 18-24 months after RHEL3 with a longer
> update/maintenance life for RHEL3.
>
> How does one choose?
>
> * If having someone to call in the middle of the night to get things
> back up and running again is paramount - use RHEL - pay for the
> time and expertise of the RedHat development team.
> * If you used RedHat Personal (the download version or the ~ $39.99
> store bought version) upgrade to Fedora Core. As it is really
> much like something between 9.1 and 10, it will feel and function
> like a regular RedHat upgrade. (*Big Side Note* - Previous
> versions of RedHat did not upgrade particularly well. However,
> upgrading from RH8 or RH9 to Fedora Cora is relatively painless
> and very safe - I've done about 20-30 or so myself. Evern remote
> machines - install yum, take care of a few dependencies and them
> 'yum upgrade'. Once done a nice, new Fedora Core 1 box was ready
> to go. I've done as far back as a RH6.1 machine *without* a
> format and re-install. However, it takes a level of commitment
> that makes a backup and reinstall look like a much better idea.)
> * Distribution Change - I think, over the last 10 years or so, I've
> tried just about every major distribution and many of the minor
> ones (what can say - I like this stuff). Each one has merits that
> make it a valid choice. However, the change from RedHat to Fedora
> Core is an easier change then from RedHat to
>
> SuSE/Mandrake/Debian/Gentoo/LFS/Rock/You-Favorite-Distribution-Here.
> Therefore, for a lot of people, the move to Fedora Core is easy -
> RedHat's explanation of FC was the problem - not the product.
>
> As a money where you mouth is - I write this from my FC1 machine,
> sending it through a RH9 machine that will be soon replaced by a
> fail-over FC1 based e-mail pod, it will be virus and spam scanned by a
> RH9 machine that is also slated for upgrade. The DNS servers used are
> FC1 with a custom MyDNS package and BIND as a recursive lookup helper.
> The firewalls traversed are RH9 and FC1 machines. On the other
> partitions of my machine live SuSE 9, Debian unstable, an LFS build,
> Gentoo and it's portage friends as well as Mandrake Cooker, slackware 9
> and a Knoppix HD installation that almost worked. I use each but I live
> most the time in my FC1 partition. Perhaps its comfort from using RH
> since 3.0.3 or habit - not sure which but that's where it stands.
>
> As a side note - we typically have copies of many distributions at our
> office at I-70 and Tower and are happy to make copies for people.
>
> Overall - distribution selection must be made with an understanding of
> the goal of the distribution - if it matches your goals you will be a
> much happier user; if not, you will spend time and money finding reasons
> to move to other distributions.
>
> "And thank you for reading this dave rave"
>
> -d
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