[CLUE-Tech] Red Hat Ending Support (Long, but very pertinent
and an enjoyable read - really, I wouldn't kid you....)
Mike Staver
staver at fimble.com
Fri Jan 16 13:49:37 MST 2004
Wow Dave, thank you for all the information, it is very helpful. After
reading that, I'm leaning more towards trying Fedora for my personal
webserver. At work I'm still debating. RHE 3 would be nice at work...
but the biggest issue I have with it is that I don't need support 24/7,
or even Red Hat support at all. Google and lists like CLUE are
extremely informative and are enough information most of the time. If
there was a time when I need support, I would like to be able to pay per
incident for it like I would do with M$. I've done this several times,
and that's fine with me. So, if I could get a copy of RHE legally and
run it on 3 servers at once and pay for support as I need it, that would
be fine with me - but I don't think it works that way. I have that
major requirement, that CFMX 6.1 run on whatever I choose. I don't see
FC listed on their website, but I guess I won't know until I try! I too
have been using Red Hat for a long, long time and am very unfamilar with
other distros. So I guess it's a choice of sticking to what I know or
finding time to learn something else.
Dave Hahn wrote:
> Mike Staver wrote:
>
>> With Red Hat Ending Support for some of their previous versions, and
>> soon to be 9:
>>
>> http://www.redhat.com/support/errata/archives/
>>
> RedHat is moving away from the RedHat Personal Boxed Edition of their
> distribution. The new versions, RedHat Enterprise (Workstation, Server,
> etc) and Fedora Core are based the on previous versions of RedHat. The
> decision was made in order to seperate the personal/no-pay-for-support
> version and their enterprise/pay-for-support versions. However, in the
> explanation of Fedora Core to the world, RedHat meant the renaming of
> the personal version to Fedora Core to:
>
> * Show that it was a more disparate product from the enterprise
> versions as a matter of technology - the newer stuff would be put
> into Fedora first (new kernels, new package versions, etc) and
> Fedora will have a more aggressive release schedule (every 4-6 months)
> * Set apart the enterprise version for users that (1) wanted to have
> paid support from the manufacturer and (2) wanted a longer release
> cycle to avoid the upgrade crunches
>
> Unfortunately, they failed miserably to reach this goal and instead
> communicated that the personal version was dead and Enterprise was the
> only RedHat product - not the intention.
>
> It is important to understand that:
>
> * Although Fedora Core has more direct input from the community then
> previous versions, it is still an active RedHat product - RedHat
> hosts the servers, RedHat uses Fedora as a testing ground for what
> will eventually end up in the Enterprise versions and RedHat still
> pays employees to work on Fedora Core. As an example, look at the
> FC lists, not only are they as active, if not more so then the
> previous RedHat lists, RedHat employees actively contribute to the
> conversations as well as the code base.
> * RedHat has really done nothing more then look at how other
> distributions behave and have created RedHat products with those
> advantages while keeping the products RedHat-ish. Examples:
> o Debian Stable - The Debian stable version is considered by
> many to be "behind the curve" as the Linux world rotates.
> However, the goal of the distribution is to maintain a *very
> stable* and very secure distribution by keeping behind the
> curve and staying with established software versions and
> waiting for the later version to more fully complete the
> development cycle before becoming part of the stable tree.
> o Lindows, Knoppix, Progeny, and other Debian based
> distributions - Other people seeing the advantages of Debian
> wanted to create a stable distribution with newer software
> and "a better face forward" then was shown by the standard
> Debian stable distribution. o Mandrake - The
> Mandrake team is always adding the newest
> bits and pieces to the Cooker and bringing them out in their
> version rather quickly. This makes Mandrake an exciting
> distribution to use because the new stuff is always just
> around the corner. However, the common criticism is that,
> at times, some stability or interoperatbility is traded for
> the new stuff. In answer, Mandrake stated creating
> sub-distributions, such as their Firewall, that focused more
> stability and special use then does the main distribution.
> o Gentoo - Gentoo is about performance and tweakage. However,
> it is not for the faint of heart and their goal is not to
> reach those people. A few examples - the "installer" is a
> text file, every package requires compilation and an
> understanding of how compiles, development and libraries
> work together.
> o WhiteBoxLinux and TaoLinux - Build from the source RPMS that
> are used to make RedHat Enterprise Linux.
> o Suport Organizations - Groups outside RedHat have said they
> will continue to upgrade 7.3 - 9 with new code and packages
> * What is important to note is that none of these distributors are
> wrong - their goals are different. Previously at RedHat, the
> attempt always was to make a distribution that would attempt to
> fit as many of these needs as possible:
> o New enough to have some of the newer sexy features without
> compromising statbility
> o A blend of packages and system design that could be
> applicable to the workstation as well as the server and the
> cluster environment
> o Try to reach the developer, the user and the newbie
> o In short, be everything to everybody.
> * This approach brought them rather far down road, however, the hand
> writing was on the wall - the needed to not just grow toward the
> needs of these different groups - they needed to meet and exceed
> them. In order to do so, a split of the product line and the
> RedHat way of doing things was required.
> o Fedora Core - Merge the RH9 Personal product with one or
> more the "Non-RedHat RPM Repositories" and include the
> developers that, in creating these additional RedHat
> packages, have proven to understand the product as well as
> the needs of the users. Blend RedHat with the community and
> allow the community more time in the dirver's seat of the
> product.
> o Enterprise - Allow organizations that want a longer life
> product as well as a "manufacturer" to purchase products and
> support that fulfilled their needs. Essentially, RedHat was
> commiting more to their products - from a contractual and
> liability standpoint, then they had previously.
>
> So, in function, was does this mean?
>
> * Fedora Core 1 - Still a RedHat product with more community
> support. No more boxed versions to be sold. However, in it's
> technical essence, it is RedHat 10. Fedora Cora 2 (FC2) is in
> testing and will likely be released in April. In following the
> RedHat guide to version numbers (i.e. anything that may break
> binary or other large compatibility items - major number change -
> if not, minor number change) FC2 will be somewhat equivalent to
> RedHat 11 - new kernel, change in glibc (some although not
> enormous), etc.
> * RedHat Enterprise - A product supported by RedHat, contractually,
> with more guarantees for stability over the long haul.
> Additionally, it gives a place for more "certifiable" versions of
> software - i.e. Oracle, DB2, etc - on a platform that will not
> undergo large changes for a longer abount of time. (Estimated
> release of RHEL4 is 18-24 months after RHEL3 with a longer
> update/maintenance life for RHEL3.
>
> How does one choose?
>
> * If having someone to call in the middle of the night to get things
> back up and running again is paramount - use RHEL - pay for the
> time and expertise of the RedHat development team.
> * If you used RedHat Personal (the download version or the ~ $39.99
> store bought version) upgrade to Fedora Core. As it is really
> much like something between 9.1 and 10, it will feel and function
> like a regular RedHat upgrade. (*Big Side Note* - Previous
> versions of RedHat did not upgrade particularly well. However,
> upgrading from RH8 or RH9 to Fedora Cora is relatively painless
> and very safe - I've done about 20-30 or so myself. Evern remote
> machines - install yum, take care of a few dependencies and them
> 'yum upgrade'. Once done a nice, new Fedora Core 1 box was ready
> to go. I've done as far back as a RH6.1 machine *without* a
> format and re-install. However, it takes a level of commitment
> that makes a backup and reinstall look like a much better idea.)
> * Distribution Change - I think, over the last 10 years or so, I've
> tried just about every major distribution and many of the minor
> ones (what can say - I like this stuff). Each one has merits that
> make it a valid choice. However, the change from RedHat to Fedora
> Core is an easier change then from RedHat to
>
> SuSE/Mandrake/Debian/Gentoo/LFS/Rock/You-Favorite-Distribution-Here.
> Therefore, for a lot of people, the move to Fedora Core is easy -
> RedHat's explanation of FC was the problem - not the product.
>
> As a money where you mouth is - I write this from my FC1 machine,
> sending it through a RH9 machine that will be soon replaced by a
> fail-over FC1 based e-mail pod, it will be virus and spam scanned by a
> RH9 machine that is also slated for upgrade. The DNS servers used are
> FC1 with a custom MyDNS package and BIND as a recursive lookup helper.
> The firewalls traversed are RH9 and FC1 machines. On the other
> partitions of my machine live SuSE 9, Debian unstable, an LFS build,
> Gentoo and it's portage friends as well as Mandrake Cooker, slackware 9
> and a Knoppix HD installation that almost worked. I use each but I live
> most the time in my FC1 partition. Perhaps its comfort from using RH
> since 3.0.3 or habit - not sure which but that's where it stands.
>
> As a side note - we typically have copies of many distributions at our
> office at I-70 and Tower and are happy to make copies for people.
>
> Overall - distribution selection must be made with an understanding of
> the goal of the distribution - if it matches your goals you will be a
> much happier user; if not, you will spend time and money finding reasons
> to move to other distributions.
>
> "And thank you for reading this dave rave"
>
> -d
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--
-Mike Staver
staver at fimble.com
mstaver at globaltaxnetwork.com
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