[CLUE-Talk] Job web sites to visit

[Sean LeBlanc]

On 12-05 21:58, Jeffery Cann wrote:
> On Thursday 05 December 2002 09:03 pm, mgushee at havenrock.com wrote:
> > Hmm, ok. To the extent that the question is, "What can you do for yourself
> > here and now?" I think the guy's right on. But I also think he's missing
> > the big picture: what's happening now to IT jobs has already happened to
> > manufacturing jobs,
> 
> I agree totally.
> 
> > and if current trends continue (why wouldn't they?),
> > pretty soon if you're not a doctor, a lawyer, a C-level executive at a
> > major corporation, or a star entertainer, you can forget about aspiring to
> > even a middle-class lifestyle.
> 
> Here, I disagree.  Although we (the technologists) as educated and 'skilled' 
> labor believe or assume that we are insolated from the perils of those 
> laborers (formerly) working in the 'manufacturing' sector.  The fact is they 
> were skilled and trained and now are replaced (for example in the automotive 
> industry) largely by automation and robots.

But this isn't quite the same thing - we are not being automated out of
existence, we are considered too expensive, and there is *no way* for us to
compete on that price, given the disparate economic climates. I'm all for
free trade, but I'm not sure that unfettered globalism = free trade. 

Also, in manufacturing, those people may have been trained, but how many
manufacturing jobs required at least a Bachelor's degree? Even in the boom
years, I saw plenty of jobs requiring a Bachelor's degree. I have no doubt
that some manufacturing people tried to be the best at what they do, but I
doubt they had to do nearly the amount of work (outside of the workplace) to
stay on top of their game - and they sure didn't need to go to school for
it.

I'm not sure what a solution is, but for now at least, I think the
government should transfer some of the tax burden onto some type of tariff
on outsourced work...companies could afford those salaries before, they
could afford some sort of tariff. It at least beats robbing people via death
taxes, capital gains taxes, etc....it's certainly no solution though. 

Anyone here know anything about becoming a lawyer? No joke...maybe going
back to school is a better long-term solution.

> Here's another example -- Sun's goal of putting all sysadmins out of work (N1 
> technology).  Read the first paragraph of this article and you'll get Sun's 
> point of view:
>  + http://www.serverworldmagazine.com/monthly/2002/11/roadmap.shtml
> 
> According to Business Week (Nov 25 issue), all of the other big firms (HP, 
> MSFT, Oracle, etc.) have similar goals.  Why are these firms proposing such 
> plans which will obviously hurt all our future career aspects?  
> 
> The main reason is that the majority of the cost of running a business is 
> labor.  In my 400-person business unit at Standard & Poor's, over 80% of our 
> operating costs are labor.  So:
> 
> 	fewer laborers --> lower operating cost = higher profit

Again, different scenario. They are not getting fewer laborers. They are
exploiting the different living conditions and/or strength of the dollar in
other countries and maybe even using MORE laborers.
 
> Note that only about 100 of our 400 employees actually work in technical 
> fields (DBA, Development, QA, QC, SA).  
> 
> Believe me, if my company could live without us, they would whack our jobs in 
> an instant.  Right now, they cannot and our benefits to the company outweigh 
> the costs.  30 years ago, we used to distribute our data in books, published 
> twice a year.  If my company could get away with still publishing books, they 
> would do it, simply to save the never-ending costs of technology.  But, their 
> customers demanded monthly, then weekly, then daily, and now real-time access 
> to our financial data.  So, the company puts up with all of the computers and 
> geeks like us because they _have_ to -- either use computers or go out of 
> business.
> 
> Unfortunately, those of us who thought that 'getting a college education' or 
> 'getting a technical job' would protect us from the cold facts of capitalism 
> are fooling ourselves.  We are no different than dedicated factory worker of 
> the 1960s who was laid off in the 1980s because his job was automated out of 
> existence.  It will happen to us too, so be prepared for it.  The fact that 
> most of us have college degrees does not matter.  To a business, we are all 
> labor -- or to use the latest assine term - we are all 'human capital'.
> 
> > At the root of much of this is so-called "free trade", which really means
> > free movement of capital. And in signing up for NAFTA, the WTO, and the
> > upcoming GATS (General Agreement on Trade in Services), our government is
> > taking most of our economic policy entirely out of the democratic arena
> > (what's left of it) and placing it in the hands of unelected and
> > unaccountable bureaucrats. So until the citizens of this country wake up
> > and take back their rights (I'm not holding my breath), we're all going to
> > be spending the rest of our lives defending our meager little pieces of the
> > pie.
> 
> I think the 'free trade' argument is too much of a conspiracy theory.  It 
> would be nice to blame NAFTA or WTO for the problems of the elimination of 
> technology workers.  But, I think the answer is simply capitalism.  Profit 
> drives everything.  The trade agreements are just another vehicle to drive 
> profit.  So, I think your blame / anger is better placed on capitalism.
> 
> Ironically, I think that technology has enabled things like 'free trade' to 
> come to fruition.  Were it not for a global communications network and 
> sophisticated software to track and ship orders, what use is world-wide 
> trade?  We (the technologists) are victims of our own success.  We have 
> enabled our business leaders to consider the elimination our jobs because we 
> have became too good at improving / automating business processes.
> 
> <sarcasm>
> I look forward to the day when we can all live a simpler lifestyle after the  
> robots take over.  Unfortunately, I'm afraid that at 31 years old, I won't 
> live to see the utopia I see portrayed in Star Trek movies.
> </sarcasm>

-- 
Sean LeBlanc:seanleblanc at americanisp.net  
http://users.americanisp.net/~seanleblanc/
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