[clue-talk] How do CLUEbies vote?

[David L. Willson]

On Sun, 2007-09-23 at 17:40 -0600, Sean LeBlanc wrote:
...
> I'm curious - how is moveon.org worse than lying our way into war? Who is
> really playing politics with lives of soldiers - a group who criticizes how
> a war is run, or the group that put the soldiers in harm's way for a lie?
> Well, many lies, but who's counting?

I'm counting.  This is the N'th time that someone has accused GWB of
lying us into this war, and AFAIK there is no proof.  Last several times
I accused anyone of lying, I had proof.  Last time we, as a nation,
called our President a liar, we had plenty of evidence, which he lied
about, until we came up with a girl's dress with his semen on it.  Is
there a blue dress here, or is it still possible that the things GWB has
said are true?

> Sigh. I guess 2008 will again be an election about "family values", or
> prayer in schools, or flag-burning, or gay marriage, or other largely
> unimportant wedge issues. Extra points if it can involve unverifiable
> metaphysical belief systems. Ever notice that things that *really* affect
> Americans on an everyday, large scale fashion are never what an election is
> "about", at least as the corporate media tells us it's "about"? As long as
> we're off in the weeds arguing over stupid issues like when a fetus is a
> child or if we should see two men kissing, we will have stuff like
> NAFTA/CAFTA rammed through without any public discussion at all.

Is "flag-burning" a stupid issue to a man who has risked his life to
defend what the flag represents.  Is the definition of "human life" a
stupid issue to an infertile couple?  How about a couple struggling to
have children?  How about a 40 year old man who has loved his life, and
who was conceived, carried, and born, under difficult circumstances, a
man who might never have been able to see the sun or have children of
his own?  How about a woman who asked to have her child destroyed,
because her heightened emotional state and desperation let her convince
herself that if it isn't illegal, it must be OK.  Or the man who
encouraged her to have his child destroyed?  It's only a "stupid issue"
when it's not ~your~ human life, or the human life of someone you care
about, that's being damaged or ended.

Why are "human rights" conferred at birth, rather than conception?  What
is the unborn child, if not a human?  Do people have dog babies that
turn human when they come out?

[...]
> Anyway, this isn't aimed at you so much, Collins, I'm just faintly amused at
> all the wailing and gnashing of teeth over an activist group like moveon.org
> from the right-wing noise machine, while the conservative activist groups
> (that if I remember correctly ) outspend liberal activist
> groups 4 to 1....and yet seem to somehow remain almost invisible, at least
> when it comes to the talking points. They also seem to have some very odd
> ties, like the Moonies for one.

Conservative activist groups are NOT invisible.  I have never seen an
anti-MoveOn bumper sticker, but I've seen plenty of the "Focus on your
own damn family" stickers.  I would have to say that FOTF has not
managed to "remain invisible".  Rush Limbaugh seems to be fairly
well-known and broadly critiqued.  How about swift boat?  Not exactly
invisible...

> [...]I don't think if the rubber meets the road that Romney will get on
> Republican ticket in any case...too many evangelicals start getting their
> back up over Mormons, and when it comes down to brass tacks, there will be
> too much friction over non-verifiable metaphysical belief systems, even if
> the Mormons as a group are the Republican's best friends (at least when it
> comes to voting). Just like Republicans will take Mooney money, they
> probably wouldn't put one up for election - they'll take Mormon votes, but I
> doubt they really want one in the White house.

Another request for reference material, here:  You said that
Evangelicals get their backs up over Mormons, but I think that
politically speaking, they kinda work together, so I need the
back-story, if I may.