[clue-talk] How do CLUEbies vote?

[Kevin Cullis]

Dennis and Michael,

On Sep 29, 2007, at 8:15 AM, Dennis J Perkins wrote:

> One person doesn't believe in God but lives a good life and is  
> generous,
> honest and helpful, Another person believes in God but is a cheat  
> and a
> thief, lies to people, maybe even kills someone.  Which goes to  
> heaven?
> If it is the second man, this God does not seem very just or worth
> following. Yet this is exactly what some people believe and how some
> people live.

So here's where there are some issues that need to be determined.

First issue: is there a heaven?

Second issue: how do I get there?

Third  issue: if there is a heaven, then what?

With the first issue, Michael states "I am choosing to spend my time  
living this life. If there's an afterlife, then it'll be a surprise.  
If there is, I'll join the 99.999% of all human beings who have ever  
lived that chose the wrong religion to get into heaven. I don't agree  
with the "we will pay for our beliefs" bit. If the atheists are  
right, there'll be nothing to pay. Once a person dies, they are dead,  
that's it."

Michael, you just stated that you don't agree that "we pay for our  
beliefs" and in the previous sentence you said "then it'll be a  
surprise," do you see your disconnect here? Everyone has to face  
their mortality, so you do pay for your beliefs if you are wrong in  
them, just as I do. If the atheists are right, even though I believe  
in God, and to a greater degree Jesus Christ's way of getting into  
heaven, we both win if the atheists are right, there are no losers.  
BUT, and this is a big BUT, what if what if the Bible states is right  
and there is a heaven, then the atheist loses!!! That's why some  
Christians become so emphatic, we don't want anyone to be losers, but  
some of us go overboard and verbally "put a gun to your head" so that  
we convict you and that's where we go wrong, and we do. A Christian's  
purpose is to express and explain the Bible so that you understand,  
then let God the Holy Spirit convict you of the truthfulness of the  
words. Now, whether you take the next step and believe is now up to  
you, we've done what we're suppose to do, explain until you  
understand, but then let you or anyone else decide, not push you into  
it.

In the "how do I get to heaven" question, all religions say there is  
a heaven but are not definitive as to how to get there and do not  
guarantee that you'll get there, sort of "you MIGHT get there"  
attitude. There are also differing religious requirements as you have  
to DO something here on earth in order to get into heaven.  
Christianity, specifically the Bible states this, is the ONLY  
religion that guarantees getting into heaven, but even some  
Christians don't believe this either. But, you do not have to do  
ANYTHING here on earth to get into heaven, only have a trust in  
someone else doing something FOR you. The Jewish religion is based on  
a similar approach, we've sinned, we need to be forgiven. All others  
you have to "make up your errors," in Christianity, Jesus took care  
of this part, now it's on to the next  part.

Dennis, based on the above comments most  Christians do NOT know of  
their rewards, or lack of them based on their works, after they've  
achieved the "getting into heaven" part of becoming a Christian.  
Getting into heaven is guaranteed and eternal by the Bible, but AFTER  
you believe your rewards are still up for grabs. Too often some  
Christians believe that "now that I'm in, I can get away with murder"  
which technically is true, but God knows each and everyone of us and  
will exact the correct penalty for our sins, even after getting our  
"get into heaven" card at the moment of salvation. As you stated  
above "If it is the second man, this God does not seem very just or  
worth following. Yet, this is exactly what some people believe and  
how some people live." Oh, God is just, you just may not see it from  
your own eyes. This is where the rewards come into play and which  
most Christians are in denial, which you've alluded to in your  
comment. Even God states in the Bible "some will come in My Name" but  
will be rejected by Him. Bottom line: whether Christian or not, we'll  
all get what is coming to us, so is each of us ready for our own  
mortality?

Kevin
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