[clue-talk] How do CLUEbies vote?

[Michael Fierro]

On Sat, Sep 29, 2007 at 12:04:40PM -0600, Kevin Cullis wrote:
 
> So here's where there are some issues that need to be determined.
 
> First issue: is there a heaven?

No, I don't think that there is. But on the flip side, I don't believe in a
hell, either.
 
> Second issue: how do I get there?

Get to somewhere that doesn't exist?
 
> Third  issue: if there is a heaven, then what?

Then a lot of people will be very surprised.

> lived that chose the wrong religion to get into heaven. I don't agree  
> with the "we will pay for our beliefs" bit. If the atheists are  
> right, there'll be nothing to pay. Once a person dies, they are dead,  
> that's it."
 
> Michael, you just stated that you don't agree that "we pay for our  
> beliefs" and in the previous sentence you said "then it'll be a  
> surprise," do you see your disconnect here? Everyone has to face  

Nope, I don't see any disconnect there. I stated what I believe. I don't
believe that the concept of having to pay for one's belief is true. If I'm
wrong, then I'll be surprised. But if my assumption that the sun is going to
rise in the east and set in the west every day ever turns out to be wrong,
I'll be surprised.

> their mortality, so you do pay for your beliefs if you are wrong in  

My mortality has nothing to do with my beliefs. I am still going to die
someday, no matter what I believe. Everyone dies. 

> them, just as I do. If the atheists are right, even though I believe  
> in God, and to a greater degree Jesus Christ's way of getting into  
> heaven, we both win if the atheists are right, there are no losers.  

Why are there winners and losers?

> Christians become so emphatic, we don't want anyone to be losers, but  

But that implies that you and only you are right. What do you think if a
member of a different denomination comes to you and says, "you've got that
wrong, and you're going to go to hell. Let me help you, I don't want you to
be a loser?"

> we convict you and that's where we go wrong, and we do. A Christian's  
> purpose is to express and explain the Bible so that you understand,  
> then let God the Holy Spirit convict you of the truthfulness of the  

Why is that their purpose? Shouldn't a Christian tend to their own spiritual
life and leave others alone? You know, that whole "remove the beam from your
eye before attending to the splinter in your neighbor's eye?" 

> you, we've done what we're suppose to do, explain until you  
> understand, but then let you or anyone else decide, not push you into  

Doesn't that also assume that one can't understand what the bible says
without you explaining it? Questioning someone's reading comprehension?
 
> In the "how do I get to heaven" question, all religions say there is  
> a heaven but are not definitive as to how to get there and do not  

That's not true. There are some that either don't believe in a heaven at all,
or choose to focus on what is in this life, and leave questions of the
afterlife for others to ponder. Buddhism and Zen Buddhism focus on
Enlightenment in this life, for example. Daoism considers everything (and
nothing) to be part of Dao.

> Christians don't believe this either. But, you do not have to do  
> ANYTHING here on earth to get into heaven, only have a trust in  
> someone else doing something FOR you. The Jewish religion is based on  

That doesn't make any sense, though. You could have the most evil person in
the world, then, and that person could get into heaven simply by trusting
that Jesus's sacrifice will get them into heaven.

-- 
Michael Fierro                                  miguelito at biffster.org
Y! Messenger: miguelito_fierro                           AIM: mfierro1
http://biffster.org                           http://weightjournal.com
--
"'I have just seen Eeyore,' Pooh began, 'and poor Eeyore is in a Very
Sad Condition, because it's his birthday, and nobody has taken any
notice of it.'"
- "Winnie-the-Pooh"
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