[CLUE-Tech] Re: ugly math crunching

[Nate Duehr]

I'll be the scapegoat and throw some Debian-specific comments into the 
fray... (GRIN)...

Collins Richey wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 11:23:22 -0600, Dale K. Hawkins <dhawkins at cdrgts.com> wrote:
> 
>>The problem is part hairy math, part search and can easily be decomposed
>>to take advantage of threads, processes, etc.
>>
>>We went with the dual opterons.  So my follow up question is whether to
>>install debian amd64 or gentoo.  I like debian, but I am curious about
>>gentoo.  Also, since this box is dedicated to number crunching, it seems
>>that I would only need the basic system and enough to run my software --
>>I am thinking this will prevent me from needing a complete gentoo
>>install should I go that route.
>>
> 
> 
> I'm prejudiced, of course, but I will always vote for gentoo. The
> principle difference for my part is a source based product vs. a
> binary product. When the time comes for upgrading, the source based
> model alows you to upgrade continually (at your own pace), whereas the
> binary distro ties you to (eventual) total upgrades and/or
> reinstallation of your system. 

Couple of thoughts here... Debian and every Linux are ultimately 
"source-based".  Anyone can download a Debian/RedHat/whatever source 
package and recompile everything if they so-choose.  ;-)

That said, tracking "testing" or "unstable" allows for incremental 
upgrades - 2 of the 3 Debian versions get "new" packages all the time. 
"Unstable" gets the really new stuff, "testing" gets newer-ish (heh) 
stuff that's fairly stable and "stable" gets nothing but security 
updates after a release date.

With Debian at least, there's no need to ever do a complete reinstall... 
tracking "testing" (which is what I like to do) keeps things fairly new 
with no 100% guarantee that a security update won't be held up by a 
package dependency for a little while.  Kinda risky on a public system, 
but a great way to go for an internal machine.  apt-get dist-upgrade is 
*required* to work between major releases by policy, so if you track 
"stable" (even though it's usually too old after it's been out a while) 
and then dist-upgrade to the next release, it's generally supposed to 
work correctly.  GCC major changes and major kernel changes make this 
difficult, but they usually get it right.

> If you are using only a basic system,
> this difference may not be as important for you. Also, I haven't
> tracked the debian product through major upgrades, so my experience
> with binary distros may not be 100% accurate for debian.

I think Debian offers a lot of (sometimes too many) options in this 
regard.

> That being said, debian is a fine distribution. With any amd64
> distribution, you are (still) on the bleeding edge of product
> development, so you will be dependant on user groups for early
> development support. Pick whichever group you are comfortable with. If
> you wind up choosing for your system any products that are not 100%
> blessed by RMS (aka $DEITY), you may find the debian troops to be less
> forthcoming with their help.

Heh, definitely agreed on that last comment.  Although RMS is far less 
important directly than the Debian Free Software Guidelines or DFSG as 
it's almost always called on mailing lists and such.  If you're needing 
to absolutely 100% know that the software you're using is completely 
Free as in Freedom to avoid future legal entanglements, it's hard not to 
give Debian a thumbs up in that regard.  They're pushy right to the 
point of annoying and or slightly militant about software licenses in 
the "main" branch.  They still have "non-free" available on the mirrors 
(especially overseas) but Collins is right -- not many people will 
publically support that software -- the culture's a bit twisted that way.

> Enjoy your new system.

Basically that's my take too -- either one is a good choice.  Being that 
  the 64-bit stuff is very bleeding edge, you'd probably do slightly 
better with Gentoo if bugs are being *fixed* right now, and slightly 
better with Debian if bugs are being *created* at a faster rate than 
they're being fixed.  :-)

But both would work great.  Sounds like a neat new box to play with.

--
Nate Duehr, nate at natetech.com