[clue] [talk] you leeches need to give back.

[Matt]

(changing topic slightly)
'leech' is being thrown around on this list and since that is the 
subtitle of my presentation I feel the need to preemptively explain.

"Contributing to OSS with going insane or:  you leeches need to give 
back"  is the title.

It is _not_ directed at this clue stuff directly.  It's geared towards 
getting people who are not involved in an OSS project to be in one, 
doesn't matter which project.

Since I'm currently contributing to Xorg, it is my subject matter.

Aux info:  I am not gonna talk at people for an hour.  That would bore 
all of us.  This will be a discussion.   I expect interaction and some 
lively conversation (and beer afterward! *cough*cough*).

There'll be a few slides, some git action, dealing with frustrations, 
things like that.  If you have any specific questions on X, try to send 
them to me before the meeting so I can research anything I don't know 
(which is a _lot_).  The sooner the better.  One question already is 
'what exactly is gallium3d?'


Also, Google Summer of Code (GSoC) is coming up.  X is looking for some 
students.  If you are or know of any students (over 18) looking to earn 
some money coding,  PLEASE let me know.   We have lots of work to do.

Matt

On 02/07/2011 11:55 AM, YES NOPE9 wrote:
>>
>> On Feb 7, 2011, at 11:17 AM, Crawford Rainwater wrote:
>>
>> "David L. Anselmi"<anselmi at anselmi.us>  wrote:
>>>> YES NOPE9 wrote:
>>>> I have put a lot of stuff into the Drupal 7 sandbox.... please don't erase it without warning....
>>>> I would like to recover my work before the site is shut down.  I just went to the Drupal 7
>>>> sandbox and my stuff is still there.  Please don't erase it for 3 days so I can copy it and save
>>>> it.
>>>
>>> Crawford told me that the "new" site would be moved to a Linux ETC server.  The two "sandbox sites"
>>> will remain where they are.  Since I haven't been working on Drupal I'm not sure what that means but
>>> now you know what I know.
>
> Are the sandbox sites and the production site on a server rented by CLUE ?  If so, Why would anyone have the right to remove content and/or shut the sites down ?  If not..... see below.
>>>
>>
>> That is correct.  The main site that I was working on to replace the CLUE web site with a Drupal based one is now running in offline mode on one of Linux ETC's servers.  The two "sandbox" sites for Drupal 6 and Drupal 7 are still on the CLUE VPSLink system.  So work done there is still there and untouched by me.  In fact, short of installation and configuration of both sandboxes, I have not really looked at them save the logs to see who has and has not contributed to them after they were requested.
> I have put quite a bit on the Drupal 7 sandbox.  Who "owns" the Drupal 7 sandbox.  I hope it is CLUE.  If not, then who ?  I can probably save copies of my work ( on Tuesday )  I would rather not bother if Drupal 7 is "safe".
>>
>>>> I have no idea why Crawford is pulling the plug.
>>>
>>> A lot of what Crawford has been doing (like the conferencing sites) costs money.  I'm not sure what
>>> motivated him to spend his money on those things but I'm not going to call it "pulling the plug"
>>> when his motivation ends.
>
> I have lost a small amount of effort.... I installed some content on the Drupal 6 production system.  Who owns the CLUE website "data image".  I would argue that you can't give CLUE something and then take it back.  Once it is CLUE's , it is always the property of CLUE.
>>>
>>
>> I gave David A. and Dennis a quick run down of what the dollar costs would have been IF Linux ETC were to bill a client for the "donated services" provided to CLUE.  For most, putting such into perspective sometimes help clarify a few items.  Did I personally put any actual dollars of my own or Linux ETC into CLUE?  Probably at one point or another (I am thinking for the VPSLink system perhaps, but I could be wrong) but then again trying to recall all the various items that I have contributed back into CLUE goes back quite bit as well.  As a business owner and individual, I have to re-evaluate what is a good return of investment of time and service.  I am still pondering this in regards to CLUE and perhaps will be for some time.  But that is my own perspective and call on such.
> A volunteer can figure out what the cost of his effort is ( and was ) but the volunteer should not retroactively bill CLUE for volunteer services rendered.  If volunteers did this, it would quickly become absurd.  I could come up with some claims ( that I could substatiate ) and it would be ridiculous if I did .
>>
>> As for "pulling the plug" that is for everyone's own interpretation.  I prefer to see it that a donated service or time is that.  Such donated services and/or time can also cease when "the gift horse is kicked in the mouth" as the phrase goes.  Thus, I removed what Linux ETC and/or I have donated recently to CLUE accordingly because of this perception.
>
> You can quit donating.... you can stop... ethically you can't retroactively take back stuff that is CLUE's property.  Especially if you are removing it from a CLUE server.
>>
>>> I haven't thought about the complete list of things Crawford is handing off but my first impression
>>> is that the most important can be picked up by others.  Maybe we'll find a new perspective on what's
>>> important and what we can do without.
>>>
>>
>> In regards to the CLUE Drupal web site since there were folks apparently not satisfied with the donated time on my behalf, there are two sandboxes to implement whatever may be satisfying from his/her own perspective.  As I noted to Dennis and David A. off list I spent roughly 40+ hours on this migration that was on "donated time".  When it was ready to go, I kept receiving "I want...", "I expect...", and/or "I do not want to use it now..." from the very folks that wanted such in place, but apparently did not wish to take the initiative to put something together on their own time.  Yes, I stepped up to the call.
> Please name these individuals who were "not satisfied".  I was satisfied... in fact I was delighted to have a Drupal 7 sandbox.
>>
>> With that said, here is English 101:
>> "want": demand the presence of; have need of; desire: feel or have a desire for
>>
>> What might have been more appropriate verbage in proper form and manners:
>> "I would like please"
>>
>> Granted, emails do not contain "tone" so I have to go with what I read and thus perceived from the "I want..." folks.  A simple "thanks" instead might have gone a long(er) way, and avoided the perception I received of being "leeched" quite a bit.  David A.'s email reflected upon this some as well.  To those who did extend those "thanks", you individually are quite welcome.
> I think you have made this "leech" thing up.  Not maliciously I am sure..... I am equally sure that everyone was benefiting from your efforts and NOW they are NOT.  Especially if you intend to hold back what has already been done.
>>
>> That said and as David A. has noted, perhaps others can "step up" and continue for as long as David A. has (I believe David A. has a longer tenure with CLUE activities and coordinating such than I have actually) and decide what is important or not.
>>
>> As for myself, I am on sabbatical from CLUE for now.
>
> I am not on sabbatical and I am happy to step up and learn what it takes to support the website.
> gus in denver  99gus
>>
>> --- Crawford
>>
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